I was just reading something on how a girl of about 9 years of age was abused by an older cousin(14) and her saying how she began to get upset about it when she was around 15 herself.It reminded me of something i was thinking about a while back.
Is social conditioning making it worse for victims of rape and abuse?In my opinion it probably is.It seems there are a substantial number of cases were the victims "learn" to become traumatized as they get older.Of course there are plenty of cases were a child is traumatized immediately even before they are overly influenced.But i think yet again newspapers and the like are doing more harm than good by creating more hysteria than necessary.
Please nobody take this the wrong way, i understand that these are terrible things but does anybody know what im trying say?
Anyone agree?

Barge pole anyone?(its a 10 footer i think)

[your a brave one]

i see wot your trying to say
and maybe its simply that when the 9yr old got older she understood the seriousness of wot had happened to her?

OK, I'll get into this one.
I think you're right in some cases.

I'm sure that some people are influenced by a kind of social climate which says that everybody should be a victim. There is an attitude which is prevelant in some places and social groups that suggests that nobody is responsible for their actions, and that we are all victims in one way or another.

The problem is that this can get distorted in some peoples minds to the point where a relatively innocent action in their childhood gets blown up into some kind of 'abuse' in their minds. I beleive that it is very easy for false memories, or at least inaccurate ones to be pulled out of our subconcious minds. Our memories are not generally photographic and it can be difficult to distinguish between the reality of what happened many years ago and images or circumstances which we have experienced since.

The danger is, that people can be persuaded that their current behaviour is the result of some trauma in the past, and in searching for it, they may 'discover' memories which are influenced by their present thinking more than the reality.

Who wants the bargepole next??

Oh, reckless me...

I do think that 'recovered memories' cause more harm, both to the individual and to truth, than they do good. In most instances, the 'recovered memory' proves to be false but the damage that has been done by its removal is irreparable. This is particularly the case where hypnosis is used, or where drugs have been involved.

On the flip side, when a young child suffers abuse, they very rarely recognise it as such and it is a part of their socialisation that they realise that what happened to them is not acceptable.

Oddly (?) no research has been done on the effects of socialisation on abused children. Not to my knowledge anyway, but then ethics isn't a county near Thuthics, I suppose.

/me holds up the 'talking bargestick'

i was a real tearaway child,and at 14 my mum thought it would be a good idea to send me to counselling. in practise it was a good theory, but all it did was make me more bitter,and confused. it dragged up issues i had never thought about that suddenly became very real and horrendous for me, made me very self pitying and gave me excuses for my bad behaviour. i never learnt anything from this experience at the time, it did far more harm than good.
now, i am over all this,i have kids myself and would never want a miserable,self pitying attitude to rub off on them. i know you cant change the past so you just have to accept it, and make the most of what you got now.
the media makes things worse, it makes people feel theyve been a victim for whatever reasons. i think human rights laws have gone beyond a joke in this country,and i hate the way society is manipulated.
anyway stupid face, i completely agree with you!

Yes. After all, think about it, we only react to things because of what we're made to think about them.

Look at the kinda crap that little kids will eat..then they grow up and think 'ewwwww'. did cavemen say 'ewww' because some beans spilled off their plate onto the carpet?

bad example but i'm sure you get my drift. everything is social conditioning.

But then who looks after the 'victims of the victims' (ie - the victims of the victims who were 'abused' and who think it was alright for them to offend against others because they were offended against?
(I know I'm repeating myself, but am trying to get the point that we must take responsibility for our own actions across.)

Everyone accused of child abuse should be killed, it dosen't matter if they did it or not, some of them will be guilty so why take a chance.
Let's recover more memories!
Child abusing f**ks!

Ummmm...where's that bargepole............

I'm not talking about any particular crime or case but in general some people are full time victims. You can see it in their demeanor and tone of voice etc. Always looking outside themselves for blame never taking responsability for their actions.
There is a definate need for professional counselling, but the umberlla of victimhood seems to have shifted up a bit.
The "no win, no fee" brigade come door to door in our area, virtually egging people on to pursue claims for minor trips and falls. The cost to the public purse from these leeches is massive, and it does my head in.
Had a trip or fall? suck it in, and watch where you are going fool.

I think sooner or later it's easy enough to tell if someone is unsure if they should feel pain or not, in which case they are best off seeing there are people who really are in trouble, or if they are actually in trouble in which case they need guidance, so theres time for harsh words or actions and times when it wouldn't be appropriate. People who know whats right don't make a habit of arguing for the sake of it where it causes someone pain.

I believe emotional scarring is as real as physical scarring. The concept of going back to that old would opening it up and having a bit of a squiz round disturbs me. But, saying that I have experienced first hand the advantages of 'owning' the past instead of ignoring it ie suppression of some traumatic incident when young.

So yer, some people have the gift of the psychological scalpel and lots of others dont. In the wrong hands, like with anything else, that scarred tissue is just gonna get reinfected and then fester away with self pity.

Im 50/50 on the social conditioning aspect of your post stupid face. On one hand you have the 'ooooohhhhhh thats why im a fucked up druggie' victims, and on the other is the fact that people are being open about things that were considered a taboo subject not so long ago.

really good topic. takes balls to talk bout issues like that. can you move a lil to the left so i can move my tongue up further plz?

FFS i have got to check my bloody posts b4 posting.

WOULD = WOUND :p

An emotional scar is an aspect of what you see as being yourself which you cannot accept, at the point that you see theres no option but to acccept it what was a limit on yourself becomes an open ended possibility, which then in turn is attractive as being a release from someone elses pain. The scar fits in a larger pattern, it's like a key to another lock. Sometimes I think i've witnessed seeing my own mind heal itself, it's quick to hide itself from view and is forever elusive, trying to find it is like chasing your own tail.

I don't doubt that causes and conditions are always in equilibrium, it's hard to explain but you just come across it, at some point causes meet conditions and then the other way around, at that point at the same time as being apart and outside of where you were thinking of finding it, it affirms itself as existent and then non existent and your liberated from that paticular problem. I think all a person needs to do to aid the process is accept another as themself and work through where they are not with the other person, but at the same time things have to be left to happen of themselves.

16 footer. :)

Hey Moxie Im sure we just said the same thing except your doughnut was longer and smokier.

Some people just like long smoky doughnuts, I guess.

Theres something very contradictory about that I'm sure. :)

remind me never to pass you the psychological scalpel when you ask for it ok.

No need to worry there really is no need for it...

here, take this instead. *hands over tweezers* pluck those fucking annoying eyebrows.