Following on nicely from the Queen's Speech thread are you generally pro or anti Monarchy and why?

I can't hide my hatred of them to be honest.

As far as I'm concerned they've ridden their luck so far but all you need to do is take a moment. Focus.

Think about how absurd it is that they are stratospherically wealthy and privileged only by dint of biological luck.

Then consider how they behave

Then ponder the fact that we pay them millions of pounds every year.

Then pick up your musket and head down to Buck House to KICK SOME RIGHT ROYAL ASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

merica is worse, slackers here big time, look at Jacko, in UK petey townsend at least is a registered paedophile, Jacko keeps on chasing young boys.

Its a different situation though, your government doesnt pay for the upkeep of MJ and Pete townsend

Thats' what gets to me a little bit (and I don't mean in this case by the way) but people from other counbtries can't understand the growing republicanism over here.

Yeah....it's because we actually have to pay for the scrounging blighters!!!

Would the residents of the USA for example be willing to pay for Disneyland's upkeep? Pay millions every single year?

That's all the Royal's are good for over here. They're our version of Disneyland. It should be nothing more and nothing less.

Republicanism isn't growing at all. And why should it be when representatives like you base your rejection of our Monarchy with vacuous diatribe based on nothing more than hatred and putting forward no conceivable alternative of your own as what we should replace it with. You talk of millions of pounds given to the Royal Family, well what about the billions of pounds of taxpayers money wasted by the Government and local councils? Have you ever thought that through? And do you know where the money given to the Monarchy goes, or what their daily duties maybe? No, I didn't think you did. But then people like you are too ignorant to ever find out.

By all means counter me by offering your alternative Head of State. If you dare.

these immigrants come over 'ere and get put up in big 'ouses at our expense, get chauffered around, get priority for medical care, break the laws of our land by releasing their wild dogs to savage anything they come across. send em all back i say.

an alternative head of state? why have one at all? or if you must we should have one token royal whose 'reign' lasts one year, selected by a national lottery. no more ridiculous than the current system

As an alternative Head of State:

The block of wood Charlie One was resting his head on waiting for the chopper, with a dirty great axe stuck in it. Put it in the Cabinet room as a reminder of just what we do to people who want that kind of power (Mr. Blair, anyone?).

The monarch's prime duties, as I understand them, are to represent the unity of the nation and to fulfill certain political requirements as instructed by ministers. So, keep the institution for the former (and for tourists, who are generally interested in the trappings of monarchy and not the monarch per se) and turn the latter over to the ministers themsleves.

As for wasting money... Government's are given a mandate by the nation to spend their budget as they see fit. This mandate be withdrawn should enough people believe them incompetent - and one of the surest ways for this to occur is if they are perceived to be using their position for personal or party-political gain. The Royals, by dint of birth alone, are able to derive personal advantage from things which are not, properly speaking, theirs.

Oh arse, I hate it when I misuse apostrophes.

Manta7 spouted:
Republicanism isn't growing at all. And why should it be when representatives like you base your rejection of our Monarchy with vacuous diatribe based on nothing more than hatred and putting forward no conceivable alternative of your own as what we should replace it with. You talk of millions of pounds given to the Royal Family, well what about the billions of pounds of taxpayers money wasted by the Government and local councils? Have you ever thought that through? And do you know where the money given to the Monarchy goes, or what their daily duties maybe? No, I didn't think you did. But then people like you are too ignorant to ever find out.

By all means counter me by offering your alternative Head of State. If you dare.

The alternative is simple my friend.

Our Head of State should be someone who is democratically elected i.e chosen by the people. Remember - we call ourselves a democracy but, as we (we as in the majority of the populace supposedly) "support" the principle of one family of in-breds being "above" all others in society's pyramid, how can we possibly be so?

In a democracy "all men are created equal".

Yet we have an unelected and herediroty Head of State.

You see the farce there?

Sure, we may make mistakes (yes, I've voted Labour for all of my voting life too sadly) but at least we'd have a fair and proper choice.

I don't for one second request that the Royal's be reduced to our own "humble" level in society but I do request a system whereby the population of this nation have equal powers - equal soverignty if you like - and the ability to fairly decide our own fate and our own "leader" without the shadow of the "Royal Perogative".

Do I know where the money given to the Monarchy goes?

Yes actually I do.

In FY02/03 "she" went through almost £36M of public money.

£9M of that went towards our bulging "civil list" (untaxed) and £21M went towards the upkeep of the Royal Palaces and her own travel expenses.

*ahem*

As I was saying......Is that good value for our public money is it?

£21M towards Palaces and Parks for the exclusive use of the Monarch and her runt-ish, mafia-esque litter?

At the last estimate the personal fortune of Liz Windsor was £20B - yes 20 billion pounds.

Public money well spent is it now, considering that amassed fortune?

As for what their daily duties entail...do they save lives? Do they add anything genuinely and uniquely worthwhile to the human race and to the population of this country - other than the opportunity it provides Doris and Norma a chance to get out of the house for once to go and wave some flags at Queenie.

Sure HM does some charity work. Yet the same Majesty avoids paying £20M in death duty on her Mother's estate. Just think of how many charities that £20M could have helped along.

I find your blind loyalty disturbing (not as disturbing as my typing errors in the last post however!) but you, like most other Royalists, can only hide behind your accusations of ignorance for so long before modern life, fairness and democracy catch up with your esteemed Head of State.

Ignorant I maybe but I don't believe in an unequal society where deference to an unelected and unjust "leader" is acceptable.

Especially not when I'm paying for the "privilege".

Theyre worth it for Phil the Greek. Fantastic entertainment. cant wait till he visits Iraq.

"I say..what happened to all of your slums and homes? They're in a dreadful state! Looks like someone dropped a bomb on them"

...have a wash young man! my, arn't the youth of today getting scruffy...

Republicanism isn't growing at all

And if it was growing at a rate of knots Manta would you change? No? Not even though your primary argument died? Oh well, let's go the other options then.

You talk of millions of pounds given to the Royal Family, well what about the billions of pounds of taxpayers money wasted by the Government and local councils?

If you're going to take taxes from people - and throw them in prison for not paying - you'd better be careful about what you're spending money on, and get the consent of taxpayers. Most taxpayers would rather spend money on nurses and teachers rather than a Silver Stick In Waiting or someone to suck Prince Charles' dick.

Some 20 year old slapper on a council estate with 5 kids from different fathers is a drain on the public purse - but much, much less than Prince Phillip. At least the 20yo can claim that her kids might do something useful. If you would defend payments to the royals you lose your right to complain about other forms of government waste.

But then people like you are too ignorant to ever find out.

Pot calling the kettle black there old cock! You know how you hate to have your bluff called.

alternative Head of State

At the risk of sounding like the anarcho-syndicalist commune in Monty Python's Holy Grail, the people are sovereign. The people are the head of state. The government answers to the people and the people can chuck out the government, the end. The monarchy are to the governance of this country (and Canada, Australia, etc.) what ashtrays are to motorbikes, or its to bulls.

What do you need a monarch/president for? Once a Bill passes through Parliament that's it, it's law, why do you need some token gesture to sign it - especially as she can't ever refuse? QE2 has nationalised stuff and denationalised it with equal conviction, she has flip-flopped as much as any politician. A President would only get in the way. A head of state is redundant, and conservatives hate expensive redundancy in government.

The other thing that the Queen does is "recognise" those who give service to the community. What happens is that this "service" stops for days before Queenie comes around, police swarm all over the place, crowds of dipshits turn up for a look, all to give a cup of tea to someone who can buy her own (much better) tea. If you want to see money going a long, long way, look at what voluntary organisations do. If you gave £1M to Barnardo's and £1M to Prince Edward, who do you think would do the most for Britain?

When I worked in the public service, I was paid a modest salary. I wasn't given a big house and none of my relatives were paid or housed on my warrant either. There were plenty more senior than me, and while greater benefits (e.g. a bigger salary and a car) might be due to them, the royals get more than they deserve. The ROI on the royals is shocking Manta, and all conservatives should be angry about that.

the fact remains that britain is one of the least democratic countries in the western world. your system of government and your voting system are in fact shit. even if you got rid of the monarchy <which you lot will never do> the country would still be closer to an oligarchy than a democracy.

oh and the monarchy do very little its true but they do a hell of alot more than most of your politicans.

you have more to be worried about in britain than the sodding monarchy.

look at the state of the country your health system and your education the roads the foregin policy even at local level the housing situation the crime all of this has little or nothing to do with the monarchy.

grow up face facts.

the forces that be are pushing the argument of the monarchy into people's faces WHY?
there hiding summat thats why!

if ye had any sense at all ye'd look for what their hiding rather than arguing bout this silly inconsiquential topical

TWATS

deedee - I would say that the UK's health service, foreign policies, education policy, transportation system, housing and crime figures all compare more than favourably with those of the Republic of Ireland.

True - most of it all bears the scars of Tory rule and Labour waste but, as I said earlier, as long as we live in a society where deference is the norm, we will meekly accept any old crap given to us by those supposedly "more powerful" than we.

and HERE (http://www.joerogan.net/media/home/Joe_Rogan_Princess_Di.mp3) is an excellent take on the royal issue.

:D

Brausen spouted:

1. the monarchy represents and embodies a society on which advancement by inheritance without reference to individual merit is enshrined.

2. It serves as a convenient veil under which the xenophobic can hide their prejudices. and diverts attention from the real issues that face our society


Hi Manta. Here are 2 non-fiscal reasons against the monarchy from a different thread. Do please tell me why the monarchy is so good (as an institution, not the individuals, please).

Head of State - a democratically elected statesperson naturally. Barred from membership of any political party would be nice.

I vote for Bazil Brush.

He's popular amongst all and we could keep him in a box when he's not needed.

Populist and cheap!

niteflite01 spouted:
deedee - I would say that the UK's health service, foreign policies, education policy, transportation system, housing and crime figures all compare more than favourably with those of the Republic of Ireland.

True - most of it all bears the scars of Tory rule and Labour waste but, as I said earlier, as long as we live in a society where deference is the norm, we will meekly accept any old crap given to us by those supposedly "more powerful" than we.

that may be true but if you wanna start a thread giving out about the state of ireland you go for as it is this is about britain. and while i'm on it ireland is a republic no monarchy here hahahaha i am no one's subject ah ha ha ha. i'm quite smug about that.

those more powerful are there because the people let them be. problems persist because of apathy go do something if it bothers you that much. bomb 10 downing st or shit on the doorstep or summat

I have a simple plan re the monarchy. Remove the Windsors at once and make Posh and Becks king and queen. When the daft cunts ask about the civil list, tell em it's something they have to contribute to the nation for being king and queen. I tell thee, Baldrick doesn't compare to me when it comes to cunning plans.

isaac hunt spouted:
I have a simple plan re the monarchy. Remove the Windsors at once and make Posh and Becks king and queen. When the daft cunts ask about the civil list, tell em it's something they have to contribute to the nation for being king and queen. I tell thee, Baldrick doesn't compare to me when it comes to cunning plans.

That's a fucking great idea.

And we'll tell them that one of their duties is public displays of anal sex. Then we flog the resulting video to America.

Can't see it working with the current set-up.

:D

I vote for Bazil Brush.

He's popular amongst all and we could keep him in a box when he's not needed.

Populist and cheap!


Don't we have that arrangement already with Michael Howard?

I was going to do a thread about the royals and I found this one, and I just had to add my twopenneth worth.

I can't stand them. I hate what they stand for stand for. They should be made to stand down. They should have all their money, property etc removed and be forced to live on £45 a week on a council estate, wait for months to see a doctor and if they don't like it the other option is to do what the french did: chop off their heads.

Vive la revolution Baby!! Yeah!

The hereditary bit particularly irks me.

Would you get on a plane it was being flown by the SON of a pilot? Would you go under the knife with a surgeon who is the DAUGHTER of an eminent medical expert? You sure as hell wouldn't.

But we are expected to accept that Chuck will make a great head of state because he's the oldest sprog of Betty Battenburg!

As for the 'What would you replace the monarchy with?' question, I say 'what would you replace toothache with?'

CT

Being Irish, obviously I have a bit of an inbred problem with the royals.

I just cant comprehend them. They seem to have no use whatsoever. They are so far out of touch with reality its scary.

so you dont like the royals.

so get up of your fat arses and turn the tv over.

personally i think its one of the best shows on tv.
even if they are a bunch of scouse gits

So we've established that no-one likes them (well, I think there was one person). Will we ever get rid of them?

God save the Queen.

Stop slagging my boss.

Queenie and Phil are OK, it's just the bloody freaky kids who are tossers.

Save money: Stop immigration (not for this thread though)

brianl007 spouted:
Being Irish, obviously I have a bit of an inbred problem with the royals.

I just cant comprehend them. They seem to have no use whatsoever. They are so far out of touch with reality its scary.

Same here, on points 1,2,3,4 and 5.

Good for tabloid fodder only. Beyond that, I'm not sure I get their current function.

marleyb spouted:
so you dont like the royals.

so get up of your fat arses and turn the tv over.

personally i think its one of the best shows on tv.
even if they are a bunch of scouse gits

i think you'll find they were manc bastards

oops

We get a good deal here in Australia.
She's our head of state but we don't pay a cent for her.
We just sort of borrow her occasionaly.

that said I'd dump the monarchy in a flash if someone would put up a non biased referendum question.

(ie monarchy yes or no
as opposed to monarchy yes or a head of state chosen by the conservatives out of a list that they made up of ex politicians...
etc)