Did anyone see this lying toad on Question Time last night? Did I hear him say that it was Gilligan who made up the 45 minute claim. These liars are even forgetting their previous lies now. There was one classic moment when Rod Liddle said re Hain "It's like sitting next to Lewis Carroll". Brilliant.

I thought Question Time last night was one of the best I have seen in ages. A real good laugh, and they were all twisting each other into tiny little circles ;)

"Politician in 'Lying Twat' Shocker";
"Water in 'Made of Hydrogen and Oxygen' shocker';
"Isaac Hunt in 'Predictable as Fuck' Shocker".

And your point is?

what is it with you two, shut the fuck up and take your grumbles elsewhere. jeeeeeeez !

I think if you take a look pbason I posted a not unreasonable thread. Dazzla in his wisdom chose to be his usual sarcastic self.

I agree with you isaac, its just not nice to see people not getting on when they have never even met each other, its weird !!

I'm not sure why you'd be surprised that a politician has lied, that's all. Maybe this is due to cynicism and disillusionment with the political process, or maybe it's realism and a desire to do something to actually change it rather than muddle along with what we've got. Bu really, what did you expect me to say:

"Yeah, lyin' cunts these ministers aren't they? It's be much better if that maggie was back in power, etc, etc..."

I can see why you'd be surprised at me taking little personal off-topic digs in a thread though. It's not exactly my style is it?

:P

Hain is one of a breed of New Labourites who were socialist firebrands as long as suited them to get to well paid positions then ditched their old beliefs. Sue Slipman, Anna Bradley etc etc. Speaking from the moral high ground of being an unreconstructed anarcho-syndicalist with 2 kids at public school I can see without fear of flaming that these people make me want to spew. They are the worst sort of turncoat scum. Hain in particular looks like such a smug git and has no integrity whatever.

I don't expect Tories to have integrity - after all their party is all about enabling the people to have to stay having, and fuck the rest.

It sickens and saddens me that these New Labour scum exist. Thank heaven for George, Jeremy Corbyn, Alice Mahon, who may be wrong, daft and unfashionable. At least it seems like they believe in something other than feathering their own nests.

You raise a very good point re Corbyn, Mahon et al Brausen, and one which I've pondered over many times. Ask yourself this. Who are the biggest hypocrites, Hain and his like for ditching their principles to achieve office, or Corbyn and crew for sticking to their principles, but being elected for a party that I doubt they endorse any of its top twenty policies. This is why I admire Scargill so much, at least he had the decency to form a new party, a party by the way that embraces all that Corbyns crew believe in, to pursue his political ambitions.

Exactly right. I notice Galloway didn't fancy resigning his seat and fighting a byelection to see how he'd get on against a 'New Labour' candidate. They go on about hating Blair but they don't mind riding his coat tails into a fifty grand job do they?

So the conclusion is that left wing or right of centre, the Labour party is full of unprincipled twats. That'd be about right.

Party politics is the art of compromise.

Joba, Isaac, You're both at least partly right. I thought of adding Scargill but that opened up a new can of worms.

Consider?

Scargs has the moral high ground but no platform (he even got beaten & lost his deposit to Mandelson in Hartlepool), no funding, no media access.

By staying in the New Labour party Geo, Jez & Alice get a platform to spout their guff, access to some of the levers of power (there's always the chance that they'll be able to trade some changes as NLs majority gets smaller). They also get a pretty decent salary.

While they're within the party they have financial support, an organisation & status that gives them free access to the media and to other like-miinded nitwits.

In practical terms I don't know whether they're right or wrong. I'm not prepared to criticise them for holding on to their salaries because, frankly, if they didn't there'd just be another fucking NL clone trying to get its head up Tonys arse.

There is an element of hypocrisy, but I think that if you try to balance this hypocrisy against these 3 individuals principles they each come out in credit.

That said, I have voted for Scargs party on the one opportunity I had, in South Oxfordshire (Heseltine territory) and I would always vote for them in opposition to other parties. I would love to see New Labour split and a hard core of left wingers go for it in an election. It would be like the charge of the light brigade - magnificent, but not politics.

Sorry, rambled a bit. Hope this makes some sense

I think new Labour will eventually fall apart but what replaces it? The left was discredited beyond repair by militant, it would need a whole new revamp. New New Labour perhaps.

I think Blair will continue for another three, three and a half years then Brown will take over and it will be back to plain old Labour judging by his conference speech.

Hm. I don;t see how New Labour can go back to being a 'socialist-leaning' party as long as they have power. It seems to me the Tories & N Labour are pretty indistinguishable in tone and they way they approach things - I reckon that trend will continue.

Sooner or later NL has to split. For one thing I can't see the unions funding more anti-union legislation. Within 5 years of that NL & Tories will be as one. I hope the splits a really big one.

The Libs seem incapable of action or thought and the Labour refugees wont swim there anyway, as if anybody cares about the Libs.

I don't know what the problem is to be honest. Taxes have gone up to spend more on the NHS and other public services. That's what I voted for and that's whats happening. The 'New' was just to reassure tory voters before the 97 election they wouldn't fuck the economy up. And they haven't.

The tories piss and moan because they're used to winning by default and now they have to get thier fucking finger out.

I wouldn't rule out the Libs if they could only get a leader with some balls and a personality. Sadly looking at them I can't see anyone who fits the bill. You have to face up to facts and accept that the Tories are the natural party for governing the UK. Blairs brainwashed the electorate twice selling his snake oil, can't see it happening again.

I think you're in for a disappointment next year. Latest odds courtesy Bluesq:

Labour - 1/5
Tories - 10/3
Lib Dems - 66/1

The bookies are rarely wrong.

Tories are dead, average members age over 65. You'll enjoy meeting up with those nice Hains when your lot joins them in the "New Conservatives".

Natural party of government? No longer.

joba, those odds are truly sad. Here we have a government who've deceived the country for seven years and they're 1/5. What a fucking desperate state we're in. New Conservatives does have a nice ring to it Brausen.

Yes, anodyne. Like the New Seekers.

Hey, don't knock them. They taught the world to sing.

Peter Hain's my local MP right.

So Valentines day comes, and I'm not really expecting any cards cause I had recently split from my now X. Anyhow, the one bit of mail I recieved that day was a complemetary calendar with Peter Hain's mug on the front inviting me to his surgery of there was anything I needed to talk about.

I wasn't quite sure how to take it

Could I sell my story to the press?

:haha::haha:

Quality, "You've got a friend in me..."