Seeing as we have a Scottish Parliament, a Welsh Assemlby and a (currently suspended) Northern Ireland Assembly, should we also have an English Parliament?

I believe so!

But am not sure whether this should be for England as a whole or as regions (London having it's own Assembly)

Do you think the regions should have their own Assemblies? What powers should they have? Labour want to set these up to replace County Councils (so North East Assembly replaces Northumberland, Durham County Councils) what do you think of that (I personally agree with the Assemblies but not abolishing the Councils)

so you are saying that you would like to see yet more red tape and more non sensical do not commiunicate waste of money local government and council departments to fufil functions already managed by existing local authorities ?

From being able to speak as someone who has the Welsh Assembly running the show, I ca tell you its a big fucking waste of time and money. They go over-budget on assembly buildings, spend all their time creating problems rather than solving them and effect life positively so little that they never get mentioned for it. I know they are only behaving like politicians but we need less of them, not more.

I think devolution has gone as far as it should. Assemblies cost an awful lot of money, witness the Scots Parliament building debacle, and there is no indication that the public wants any more of them. The UK is essentially a unitary state and if we want more in the way of devolution it should be achieved through an overhaul of local government rather than adding an another tier of bureaucracy in the form of regional assemblies.

Self-determination is good, despite all the teething problems.

It's democrary Jim, but not as we know it.

I don't think it's a good idea. Anyway, didn't Wales vote against complete devolution? If England devolved that's be going againtst their wishes. There's too much red tape as it is, splitting things further would only add more.

there's been a lot of red tape and hot air in the Welsh assembly, nevertheless-

free bus travel for all oaps and the disabled
no university top up fees
free breakfasts for schoolchildren planned
free prescriptions for all planned

Sausages makes a very good point here (**Blink** did I just type that?) ;)

The Welsh Assembly may have its faults. but it’s already done more in its short existence, to benefit the people of Wales, than the English Parliament did in the last 20 years.

I think the case for greater regional devolution of power is growing. People are getting tired of the Tony Blair, Gov't by apology school of excuses why we cant do this, & we cant do that, the executive in this country grows more and more like an episode of Yes Minister every day.

I agree with the detractors here though, where it is done badly, the cure is worse than the disease. (Child Support Agency syndrome).

I live in Wales and the Assembly has done nothing for me. I think if you polled most Welsh people they would be of the same opinion. From what I've seen it's a forum for hot air mostly.

I think Devolution is great in theory and would work well (maybe already does for all I know) in an organised and structured society such as Japan. What chance of it working in the UK though with our abysmal track record in the Public Sector ? No chance I reckon, just an added layer of confuscation.

You already have an English Parliament at Westminster, it is not really influenced by the Welsh, Scots of Northern Irish concers at the moment anyway so any "English Parliament." truely would be a waste of money.

But if you wanna pay for it then far be it from me to stop you

Would it not be more beneficial to stop grants to wales and scotland instead?

WHAT ARE YOU LOT TALKING ABOUT?

"You already have an English Parliament at Westminster, it is not really influenced by the Welsh, Scots of Northern Irish concers at the moment anyway so any "English Parliament." truely would be a waste of money."

Sorry but you have made a very big mistake in stating that! For a start, England has not had its own parliament since the formation of the UK. Westminster IS NOT Englands Parliament and it is very influenced by the Welsh and Scottish. Firstly, when parliament voted on top-up fees, English MP's voted against, however all Scottish MP's voted for and because of the Scottish majority in parliament England now has TOP UP FEES! Your saying thats not influence??? What crap you talk!
If England had its own parliament, students would not be paying top up fees now and our OAPS would not be paying for their central heating!! Scottish OAPS get FREE central heating! Can you believe that? Wanna know how? Because Scotland has its own parliament.

People in Scotland get on average £1000/per person than people in England.

England is the only nation of Europe without specific representation for its people.

Europe of the Regions produced a map of England that famously omitted England yet included the other nations of the UK. This is the reality of England’s situation. England is a political non-entity The proposed regional assemblies of England will not have the powers of the Scottish Parliament. As John Prescott has commented "People do not expect the equivalent of a Scottish Parliament for the English regions." An English Parliament is needed to provide parity with the people of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland because the people of England do expect that.

Without any democratic overall guidance in the form of an English parliament the regionalisation of England will result in English regions squabbling over budget allocations, and fighting for EU funds with all the members of the EU. The result will be a Balkanised England - this is the end of England as a cohesive unit.

I'm afraid its people like you that fail to realise just how much England is dis-advantaged compared to the rest of the UK. England is subsidising the rest of the UK, for example, the new Scottish Parliament has cost more than the labour party expected, meaning that the English tax payer has to foot the bill by £86 million, yet the very same party in power denies England the fair treatment by giving us our own parliament too.

Regions are also NOT devolution for England, they are the road to abolition! When the north east of England voted no against a regional assembly they saved England! If England was regionalised, the very term "England" would be lost forever. Infact, the government does not even recognise England as a nation at all!! Apparently were still British, whilst the rest of the UK are reclaming their national identities we have to remain "British". As Tony Blair stated when he claimed the "devolultion of the UK" in 1998 "Scotland is a proud and historic nation, whereas English isn't really a nationality" i reject this discrimination! Everywhere you look, you see English discrimination. Why should England be partioned into competeing regions 1 against another, whilst the other nations of the UK remain entact? When John Prescott speaks of "the nations and regions of the UK", they mean the "regions" in which they planned to destroy England into. The nations are "Scotland" "Wales" & "N. Ireland". You may also be interested to know that regions in England were proposed by the EU! in the early 70's the EU comission published a map of the UK with all the regions listed such as "south west", there is no mention of England on it whatsoever. You can check out the map itself by going to www.thecep.ork.uk (campaign for an English Parliament website)

For EXAMPLE... BT Scotland... wheres BT England?? BBC Scotland... wheres BBC England? Scottish Gas... wheres English Gas?? The list goes on!!

The logo as we may all be familiar with "Keep Britain Tidy" has now changed in Scotland to "Keep Scotland beautiful" and in Wales "Keep Wales Tidy" and in N. Ireland "Tidy up N. Ireland". I dont see a logo for England! Where is "Keep England Tidy"???? This is English discrimination!

If the current party in power was so democratic, they would offer England EXACTLY what is has given to Scotland; its own Parliament. Nothing less will do. But because the labour party is Scottish led, they dont want to see England and its identity restored. Its a pitty the English people aren't waking up to the facts and figures that their country is being abolished by those that they have elected.

Everywhere you look, there is English discrimination, go to tesco and you'll see groceries that were produced in English labled with the union flag, whereas products produced in Scotland, Wales and N. Ireland are labled with their own flags! Next time your in Tesco, take a look at their cheeses inpiticular and you'll see!

Has anyone noticed recently, how the English tourist board has quitely been abolished? It now falls under the "British tourist board" BUT, there is still a "Scottish tourist board" and a "Welsh tourist board" - discrimination!

I could go on forever! Our country is underthreat!

1 last thing before i go: to the person that mentioned that an English Parliament would be a waste of money, perhaps you should think again!

Sausages makes a very good point here (**Blink** did I just type that?) ;)

The Welsh Assembly may have its faults. but it’s already done more in its short existence, to benefit the people of Wales, than the English Parliament did in the last 20 years.

I think the case for greater regional devolution of power is growing. People are getting tired of the Tony Blair, Gov't by apology school of excuses why we cant do this, & we cant do that, the executive in this country grows more and more like an episode of Yes Minister every day.

I agree with the detractors here though, where it is done badly, the cure is worse than the disease. (Child Support Agency syndrome).

What English Parliament???

There is no popular demand for an English parliament. Be it a single entity or regional devolution. There is more of a demand for devolution in Scotland and Wales because those areas were largely mistreated by the Conservative governments of Thatcher. Devolution aided in bringing government closer to ordinary people in those countries.

English devolution would help in resolving the West Lothian question though (and all THAT needs is simply a statute preventing Scottish MP's from voting on English issues).

There is no popular demand for an English parliament. Be it a single entity or regional devolution. There is more of a demand for devolution in Scotland and Wales because those areas were largely mistreated by the Conservative governments of Thatcher. Devolution aided in bringing government closer to ordinary people in those countries.

English devolution would help in resolving the West Lothian question though (and all THAT needs is simply a statute preventing Scottish MP's from voting on English issues).

So why did the north east reject regional government? Why are there more than 800,000 signatures collected and rising demanding a referendum on an English Parliament? There is demand believe me! People just aren't being allowed to know the truth.

Because they didn't want it?

And 800,000 from 50 million?! That's not much is it. The 'demand' for English devolution isn't simply evident.

Why is it necessary? Simply because Scotland and Wales have devolution?

Dear Engman.

Thanks for bumping a very old topic with some new opinion. Please dont type complete posts in bold. K thanks.

Scottish OAPS get FREE central heating! Can you believe that? Wanna know how? Because Scotland has its own parliament.

That's partly true, but what's to stop the government introducing a bill to do the same throughout the UK? Or the Tories or Liberals proposing to do the same. Absolutely nothing.

PS Wales has its own Parliament and their OAPs have to pay their heating.

The proposed regional assemblies of England will not have the powers of the Scottish Parliament. As John Prescott has commented "People do not expect the equivalent of a Scottish Parliament for the English regions."

The regional assemblies planned would have has similar powers to the Welsh Assembly. So far people have decided that they don't want them.

And the Welsh could have has the same powers as the Scottish Assembly, but voted against.

As Tony Blair stated when he claimed the "devolultion of the UK" in 1998 "Scotland is a proud and historic nation, whereas English isn't really a nationality"

I've tried looking for this quote, but can't find it. Can you help?


Scottish Gas... wheres English Gas??

Well, it helps, Scottish Gas is owned by Centrica. They are based in Windsor. That's Windsor, England.


The logo as we may all be familiar with "Keep Britain Tidy" has now changed in Scotland to "Keep Scotland beautiful" and in Wales "Keep Wales Tidy" and in N. Ireland "Tidy up N. Ireland". I dont see a logo for England! Where is "Keep England Tidy"???? This is English discrimination!


Yes, that's a real political hot potato.....

Has anyone noticed recently, how the English tourist board has quitely been abolished?

Erm, no.....

http://www.visitengland.com/

I could go on forever!

I do believe, sir, that you could...........

That's partly true, but what's to stop the government introducing a bill to do the same throughout the UK? Or the Tories or Liberals proposing to do the same. Absolutely nothing.

PS Wales has its own Parliament and their OAPs have to pay their heating.



The regional assemblies planned would have has similar powers to the Welsh Assembly. So far people have decided that they don't want them.

And the Welsh could have has the same powers as the Scottish Assembly, but voted against.



I've tried looking for this quote, but can't find it. Can you help?




Well, it helps, Scottish Gas is owned by Centrica. They are based in Windsor. That's Windsor, England.



Yes, that's a real political hot potato.....



Erm, no.....

http://www.visitengland.com/



I do believe, sir, that you could...........

What the f**k are you on about? www.visitengland.com is not the English tourist board. The English tourist board was abolished 2 weeks ago and it merged with the British tourist board... are you trying to ignore the facts???

As for the logo "Keep British tidy" i was simply trying to show you that its small things like that which prove that the government is trying to abolish England, wether you think its political or not, i believe it is. Its quite obvious.

More to the point about introducing a bill on centrel heating! Scotland is gaining more independence from the rest of the UK everyday, its a FACT! Believe it or not, Scotland has the power to withdraw from the EU as it is recognised as a single nation. So one day, Westminster wont be able to enforce more taxtes on the scottish and make their oaps pay for central heating!!!

and i KNOW WHERE WINDSOR IS! The fact its based in England makes it even more controversal... its been implemented by the government to create "scottish gas" whilst leaving England out of it so we have to stick with British gas. We have no companys of our own named for England. Another example BBC Scotland. As i asked before, where is BBC England? The BBC are another culprit in the abolishment of England. Take a look at their website and just have a look at their biast comments, such as "Voters in the north east should look at the success of the Scottish Parliament". Theres no mention of an English Parliament there at all. I notice you dont have anything to say about the fact the English are paying £86million towards the scottish parliament.

As for the signatures, no, 800,000 might not seem much, but for your information an organization that collected 1 million signature demanding a referendum on the EU constitution was successful after the petition was taken to buckingham palace. That was only 1 million signatures. 1 million can go a long way, its a very big number of people despite the population.

Another example BBC Scotland. As i asked before, where is BBC England? The BBC are another culprit in the abolishment of England.
You'll find BBC England on Sky Digital channel 101. That's if you live in England.
For copyright reasons, the BBC have regionalised broadcasts in England, NI, Scotland and Wales, if your Sky viewing card is registered with an English postcode, you will automatically receive BBC England - that is to say a BBC service where the copyright paid on each program does not extend outwith England thus, a channel unique to viewers in England.

you're right, people in england don't have to put up with just 'bbc england'
they have:
BBC One East
BBC One East Midlands
BBC One London
BBC One North
BBC One North East
BBC One North West
BBC One South
BBC One South (Oxon)
BBC One South East
BBC One South West
BBC One West
BBC One West Midlands
as well as all the regional BBC2s as well
Scotland is much bigger than most of those regions so why doesn't it get three or four BBC regional channels?

their seems to have never been a big trend for english/british authorities to use the word 'English' or British in their name, predating Scottish devolution by many a year

the FA, the AA, the RAC, the Royal Navy, the Royal Marines, the RAF, RSPCA, RNLI etc etc

sigh.... engman.... are you a staunch BNPist?

go abroad and people generally cant distinguish between 'britain' and 'england'. many times i have told people im from scotland and they look at me blankly before the lights come on and they go "ahhh, england yes?"

you know the reason for this? the british empire was always thought of as being english. which it pretty much was (although dont get me started on the ratio of scottish soldiers to english...)

and the english did their damned hardest back in the day to supress non-english culture. thats why there is such a culture and identity push in these countries. not to mention the thatcher years where that silly old bitch tried to fuck the devolved nations in the ass.

you seem to think there is some conspiracy against your country. there isnt. your already well defined, everyone knows you and most of these thnocentric countries that you believe to be anti-english are run from england.

and the scottish MPs who voted for top up fees and old biddy gas prices were whipped by tony blair. otherwise they would have voted against it as well.

and the government is not run by scots who want to destroy your country. stop being so paranoid.

You'll find BBC England on Sky Digital channel 101. That's if you live in England.
For copyright reasons, the BBC have regionalised broadcasts in England, NI, Scotland and Wales, if your Sky viewing card is registered with an English postcode, you will automatically receive BBC England - that is to say a BBC service where the copyright paid on each program does not extend outwith England thus, a channel unique to viewers in England.

So do you have to have sky before you can view BBC England? Tune into BBC in England EG BBC 1 you dont get BBC England but always "south west" or whatever so called "region" your in. Scotland has not been partioned like this. I beg to differ, i believe they are following the governments lead and want to abolish England into these regions. Their pages on the north east regional assembly just do it for me. Never in my life have i seen the BBC supporting a por-English event (including st georges day) unless its a football match!

What the f**k are you on about? www.visitengland.com is not the English tourist board. The English tourist board was abolished 2 weeks ago and it merged with the British tourist board... are you trying to ignore the facts???

Well, if it helps, www.visitscotland.com IS the offical site of the Scottish tourist board. You have an equivalent site in England. So what's the problem?


More to the point about introducing a bill on centrel heating! Scotland is gaining more independence from the rest of the UK everyday, its a FACT! Believe it or not, Scotland has the power to withdraw from the EU as it is recognised as a single nation. So one day, Westminster wont be able to enforce more taxtes on the scottish and make their oaps pay for central heating!!!

So you do agree that in principle that you don't need an English parliament to stop pensioners in England (AND WALES) getting free heating bills, then? It's nothing to do with England not having a Parliament. It's quite simply that none of the major parties have proposed it.

and i KNOW WHERE WINDSOR IS! The fact its based in England makes it even more controversal... its been implemented by the government to create "scottish gas" whilst leaving England out of it so we have to stick with British gas.

Scottish gas and British gas are private companies. If you are really that bothered about what they are called why don't you or people of a similar mind take it to their agm?

I notice you dont have anything to say about the fact the English are paying £86million towards the scottish parliament.

Ok, if it will help. The British (I'm assuming that you are including Welsh and Northern Irish taxpayers in this) shouldn't have paid anything to it. The whole thing is a complete waste of money.

Any luck with that Tony Blair "quote"?

Well, if it helps, www.visitscotland.com IS the offical site of the Scottish tourist board. You have an equivalent site in England. So what's the problem?






So you do agree that in principle that you don't need an English parliament to stop pensioners in England (AND WALES) getting free heating bills, then? It's nothing to do with England not having a Parliament. It's quite simply that none of the major parties have proposed it.



Scottish gas and British gas are private companies. If you are really that bothered about what they are called why don't you or people of a similar mind take it to their agm?



Ok, if it will help. The British (I'm assuming that you are including Welsh and Northern Irish taxpayers in this) shouldn't have paid anything to it. The whole thing is a complete waste of money.

Any luck with that Tony Blair "quote"?

You have proved my point right there! Yes, there is a website for English tourism, but notice the difference between www.vivistengland.com and www.vistscotland.com it states at the top "The offical site of Scotlands national tourism board" the www.visitengland.com doesn't! Because England no longer has its own tourism board - it was ABOLISHED! We now only have the "British tourism board" proposing we are nothing but British.

Believe me, we have fought and fought these sort of companys that wish to discriminate against England, but they are too stubborn to listen. I have challenged tesco about their English products only being l abled with the union flag. They dont listen.

The EnCams company that produces the "Keep Britain Tidy" logo stated that the reason they have kept the "keep britain tidy" logo is because the logo is ove 60 years old. However, they were quick enough to change all that in scotland, wales and N. Ireland! Why should England have to stick with "keep britain tidy"? A very small point i know, but it all adds to the agenda.

It is due to Scotland having its own parliament... for examply, because Scotland does have its own parliament, students in scotland do not have to pay top up fees. Whereas the English do because they were outvoted in parliament by the scottish majority because the labour party is made up of mostly scottish mps. This is injustice.

sigh.... engman.... are you a staunch BNPist?

go abroad and people generally cant distinguish between 'britain' and 'england'. many times i have told people im from scotland and they look at me blankly before the lights come on and they go "ahhh, england yes?"

you know the reason for this? the british empire was always thought of as being english. which it pretty much was (although dont get me started on the ratio of scottish soldiers to english...)

and the english did their damned hardest back in the day to supress non-english culture. thats why there is such a culture and identity push in these countries. not to mention the thatcher years where that silly old bitch tried to fuck the devolved nations in the ass.

you seem to think there is some conspiracy against your country. there isnt. your already well defined, everyone knows you and most of these thnocentric countries that you believe to be anti-english are run from england.

and the scottish MPs who voted for top up fees and old biddy gas prices were whipped by tony blair. otherwise they would have voted against it as well.

and the government is not run by scots who want to destroy your country. stop being so paranoid.

In despite of that... there remains too much evidence to suggest that there is! I am fed up with being told I am British, not English.

Now, if the government recognised England as a nation, it wouldn't propose that it be split into segments each competing with each other, would it? England very soon, will be the only country not represented in the EU. Thats a start and its good enough for me.

England needs its own parliament, England IS the only country now in the UK to not have its own representation which will look after our interests and our economy.

You also state my point that when people hear "British" they imediately think "British" nothing else. English is British and British is English. We have to remain English and remain flying the union flag? Whilst those in Scotland who wish to reclaim their national identity can and do so. On the English/Scottish border, the st andrews flag flys high - do you see a st george cross flying on the border into England? I dont think so!

and no... im not BNP- im not racist thanks.

So do you have to have sky before you can view BBC England?

No actually, I've been misleading. It depends how you receive your television. For copyright reasons, many broadcasts are regional. If you view analogue terrestrial signals (council telly) then you pick things up from a local transmitter, digital terrestrial is the same, this will be regionalised. If you view through a satelite dish, the signal footprint is much larger, therefore the signal goes by postcode.
If you view through cable, the signal is regionalised at an exchange and sent to your box. So depending on how you receive telly, you may get a different version of BBC 1.

The BBC does splits it's cash so that regional production companies can make programmes specific to that area, this has been the case for quite a while.

Anyway, back to the topic on hand. It would be a pointless waste of money, look how much Hollyrood cost...

It is due to Scotland having its own parliament... for examply, because Scotland does have its own parliament, students in scotland do not have to pay top up fees.

But it's not quite as simple as that. Wales has its own parliament, yet student is Wales DO have to pay top-up fees.

I don't think that Scottish MPs should vote on issues that affect only England, Wales, etc. such as the issue of top-up fees. If that was the case would you deem it acceptable?

Believe me, we have fought and fought these sort of companys that wish to discriminate against England, but they are too stubborn to listen. I have challenged tesco about their English products only being l abled with the union flag. They dont listen.

The EnCams company that produces the "Keep Britain Tidy" logo stated that the reason they have kept the "keep britain tidy" logo is because the logo is ove 60 years old. However, they were quick enough to change all that in scotland, wales and N. Ireland! Why should England have to stick with "keep britain tidy"? A very small point i know, but it all adds to the agenda.

First of all who is this 'we' ?

As a British man (and English, and Devonshire...etc.etc.) I find youre comments to be nothing more than the spoutings of some Little Englander. I read your words and the image pops into my head of that guy with the hanky on his head from Monty Python.

I can actually see you phoning and writing to the companies you mention and demand that they change thier name "I demand that you use a different word to describe your product" I imagine them writing back and saying that they will rebrand themselves just for you as long as you dont mind footing the bill!

Does it really matter whether we call ourselves Britian or England, Scotland, Wales and N Ireland ? I dont think it does, if we were to follow the advice of people like yourselves we would devolve ourselves back to the Fuedal clans of 2000 years ago.

Stop being so obsessed about England/Britian, its really not that big a deal.

Additionally, if ever I am asked my address I always put UK (not England or Britian) and most websites that require these details only have the option for putting UK.

oh, and as I said at the start, who is this 'we' ?

IMO we don't need a separate parliament for England. (We already have a parliament in England - it's in Westminster)

We already have the GLA and a Mayor in London. What good has that done?
1. Congestion Charging (whoopee doo)
2. New buses (that still never come on time, and still come in 2s and 3s)

why waste more money on more parliaments?

Also, am I the only person who can see that dividing England up into smaller regions with their own parliaments is paving the way for entry into Federal Europe?

Engman - what the fuck are you on? Who cares how the bloody bbc runs itself? Who cares what labels they put on :cheese:? Who cares if you call yourself British or English?

One thing that you seem to forget is that Scotland, Wales and N Ireland are a lot smaller than England (UK pop approx 60m, England approx 50m). If Scotland had a population of 50m then it too would be split into regions much the same way as England is.
Lets face it London has a lot of it's own stuff (Thames Water, London Transport, BBC London, London Underground etc...) and London has a bigger population than Scotland does.

As for the scottish controlling parliament, how can there be more scottish MP's than English MP's? It's virtually impossible. And why does it matter? We're all English. Engman do you secretly hate Scottish people or something?

There is no need to quote the entirety of another persons post, particularly if it's the previous one. Quote what you need, m'kay.

I dont know about buses or anything that the GLA does. I care about these things, sorry if you dont care about your country in the same way!!

Yes, there is a parliament in England, doesn't mean its run by England!

Population doesn't matter, the USA has a population larger than Canadas, but Canada is larger the the USA. Size isn't important. What the fuck are you on about?? Im standing up for my country and its rights. If the country was full of people like you, we'd all be paying high taxes and even higher fuel prices!!

and no... i dont hate the scottish, they aren't English so why should they be allowed to vote on English matters when they have their own parliament in Edinburgh to decide their own destiny.

and its not impossible at all... there are more Scottish mps - the labour party is scottish led for god sake. Tony blair is scottish!

I dont know about buses or anything that the GLA does. I care about these things, sorry if you dont care about your country in the same way!! I care about my country and I'm proud to be British/English or whatever you want to call it. You are just being pedantic.

Yes, there is a parliament in England, doesn't mean its run by England! Who's it run by then? Scotland? Wales? Brussels? Mozambique?

Population doesn't matter, the USA has a population larger than Canadas, but Canada is larger the the USA. Size isn't important.Is that what you tell all the laydeez? ;)
My point is it's all about representation. England has a larger population and therefore requires more regional governments to run in the same way.

What the fuck are you on about?? Im standing up for my country and its rights. If the country was full of people like you, we'd all be paying high taxes and even higher fuel prices!! Yeah cos I love paying high taxes and high fuel bills. *rolls eyes* You're so noble 'standing up for your country'. Maybe you deserve a knighthood? You seem to be unable of debating a point without refering to pointless drivvle. If the country was full of people like me, you wouldn't be in it. (You'd be in Scotland :D)

and no... i dont hate the scottish, they aren't English so why should they be allowed to vote on English matters when they have their own parliament in Edinburgh to decide their own destiny. You clearly do though. England and Scotland are part of the same country, so therefore vote on the same matters. They don't decide their own destiny. They spend billions of pounds on a nice big house where they sit an have tea and biscuits and talk about the next Old Firm clash

and its not impossible at all... there are more Scottish mps - the labour party is scottish led for god sake. Tony blair is scottish!How could there be more Scottish MP's FFS? Scotland just aint big enough to be able to send more MP's to parliament than England. Tony Blair is English mate. Even if he were Scottish, what does it matter? He's still BRITISH which is what we all are.

I could sit and argue with you all day. You're hilarious :yes:

Actually Tony Blair was born in Edinburgh. :) ;)

Population doesn't matter, the USA has a population larger than Canadas, but Canada is larger the the USA. Size isn't important. What the fuck are you on about?? Im standing up for my country and its rights. If the country was full of people like you, we'd all be paying high taxes and even higher fuel prices!!

OK if you truly desire devolution for England, do you think the UK should remain a unitary state or convert to a federal structure?

I care about my country and I'm proud to be British/English or whatever you want to call it. You are just being pedantic.

Who's it run by then? Scotland? Wales? Brussels? Mozambique?

Is that what you tell all the laydeez? ;)
My point is it's all about representation. England has a larger population and therefore requires more regional governments to run in the same way.

Yeah cos I love paying high taxes and high fuel bills. *rolls eyes* You're so noble 'standing up for your country'. Maybe you deserve a knighthood? You seem to be unable of debating a point without refering to pointless drivvle. If the country was full of people like me, you wouldn't be in it. (You'd be in Scotland :D)

You clearly do though. England and Scotland are part of the same country, so therefore vote on the same matters. They don't decide their own destiny. They spend billions of pounds on a nice big house where they sit an have tea and biscuits and talk about the next Old Firm clash

How could there be more Scottish MP's FFS? Scotland just aint big enough to be able to send more MP's to parliament than England. Tony Blair is English mate. Even if he were Scottish, what does it matter? He's still BRITISH which is what we all are.

I could sit and argue with you all day. You're hilarious :yes:

Hahahaha! nope, not the ladeez - the guys lol

1 fact: 1 have several scottish friends - i have nothing against them, i am not racist please understand that. The parliament in westminster is run by English. Scottish, welsh and Northern irish MPS, therefore it is NOT English. It looks after the UK as a whole and not England directly. This is why, you, or somebody else on here was whining about the GLA not doing much. Thats because the GLA has no real powers to change anything in london accept small things like congestion charging... an English parliament would have the same powers as has been given to Scotland, we dont expect anything less.

Perhaps you like to follow the governments lead, or maybe your a politican in secret and want to see the abolishment of England? As i warned the government waaay back before the "north east" ever had a vote on a regional assembly that they would not succeed because the English people aren't stupid enough to accept their phoeney regions - and they didn't!. Your country wasn't partioned into regions and nor was wales, or northern ireland. Why should England be? Prescott said yes (hes welsh) Blair said yes (hes scottish) England said NO! stuff regions where the sun dont shine! Even though we've managed perfectly without these regions for hundreds of years the government still wont accept this.

Population is a silly excuse. Take a look at Japan, with little more mass than what England has and nearly 3 times the population, they seem to manage perfectly by running 1 single government. No regions. No assemblies. 1 parliament.

Actually Tony Blair was born in Edinburgh. :) ;)



OK if you truly desire devolution for England, do you think the UK should remain a unitary state or convert to a federal structure?

It's going that way. Scotland will have the power soon to withdraw from the EU singally as 1 nation. Wales will also and N. Ireland! If we all go our seperate ways, we will all be independent nations. But where will England be left without its own parliament to govern itself?

Tony Blair talks about setting up an "Iraqi parliament" can England have one first?

Actually Tony Blair was born in Edinburgh. :) ;)

Aye, raised in Durham, in actuality, about as Scottish as Rod Stewart.

They don't decide their own destiny. They spend billions of pounds on a nice big house where they sit an have tea and biscuits and talk about the next Old Firm clash

:haha: That's fucking spot on.

Do we really need another millenium dome, again, for a third time?

Shock News: England disadvantaged!

OK, so it's not a shock. Let's take a look at what the Welsh Government has achieved for Wales

1. free prescriptions for the under 25s, and reduced prescriptions for everybody else;
2. free eye tests for high risk groups;
3. free bus passes for pensioners and disabled people (which allow pass holders to travel from one end of Wales to the other);
4. free school milk for infants;

Just how do they manage this? Easy, under the Barnett formula each person in Wales receives £1026* per head per year in Government spending than a person in England.

In 2003 the Welsh Government pledged to:

1. extend free prescriptions to all;
2. end home care charges for the disabled;
3. introduce free breakfasts for all primary school pupils;
4. free entry to swimming pools for older people and school pupils during holidays;
5. an extension of the free bus travel scheme;
6. and a promise of no top up fees in Welsh universities for the duration of the next Assembly - top up fees were imposed upon English students by the votes of Scottish and Welsh MPs, English MPs voted against top-up fees.

Angry? You should be, there is no English government pledging to bring the same benefits to England.

* Source: HM Treasury; PESA 'Identifiable Expenditure' April 2004)

The parliament in westminster is run by English. Scottish, welsh and Northern irish MPS, therefore it is NOT English. It looks after the UK as a whole and not England directly.... an English parliament would have the same powers as has been given to Scotland.

Assuming, of course, that people want it. The Scottish and Welsh parliaments have different powers because the two sets of electorate voted for two different packages.

You could get around this whole situation by preventing MPs who represent non-English constituencies from voting on wholly English issues. You don't need a separate parliament.

Scotland will have the power soon to withdraw from the EU singally as 1 nation.

I thought you told me that they already had.

Any luck with that Tony Blair quote?

It's going that way. Scotland will have the power soon to withdraw from the EU singally as 1 nation. Wales will also and N. Ireland! If we all go our seperate ways, we will all be independent nations. But where will England be left without its own parliament to govern itself?

Well if Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland had the power to do this, then they would be independant nations. Then they wouldn't be governed from Westminster anymore - ie there would no longer be any Scottish, Welsh or Irish MP's in parliament, so therefore the House of Commons would become England's parliament.

It's going that way. Scotland will have the power soon to withdraw from the EU singally as 1 nation. Wales will also and N. Ireland! If we all go our seperate ways, we will all be independent nations. But where will England be left without its own parliament to govern itself?

Tony Blair talks about setting up an "Iraqi parliament" can England have one first?


You haven't answered the question. Is a federal state the answer to the problem?

Well if Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland had the power to do this, then they would be independant nations. Then they wouldn't be governed from Westminster anymore - ie there would no longer be any Scottish, Welsh or Irish MP's in parliament, so therefore the House of Commons would become England's parliament.

ya dont say!
but currently its not.

You haven't answered the question. Is a federal state the answer to the problem?

what ar eyou talking about? answer to what problem?

Assuming, of course, that people want it. The Scottish and Welsh parliaments have different powers because the two sets of electorate voted for two different packages.

You could get around this whole situation by preventing MPs who represent non-English constituencies from voting on wholly English issues. You don't need a separate parliament.



I thought you told me that they already had.

Any luck with that Tony Blair quote?
I didn't say they already had withdrawn from the EU i said they will have the power to, if you read it properly.

"The Scottish and Welsh parliaments have different powers because the two sets of electorate voted for two different packages."

WELL OBVIOUSLY! Bceause wales and scotland are 2 nations! blimey!
if England had voted for its own parliament, there would be a 3rd, correct? 1-2-3 yeah? ABC?

..... As i warned the government waaay back before the "north east" ever had a vote on a regional assembly....


Green ink on the envelope? Letters cut out from the headlines of the Daily Star? Stamp stuck down with semen (God bless you, your Majesty)?

Green ink on the envelope? Letters cut out from the headlines of the Daily Star? Stamp stuck down with semen (God bless you, your Majesty)?

No, ive written and written letters to the government. All of which replied and were very addimant that there was support there for a regional assembly. For example take this line from MP Jamie Davidson devonport, plymouth constituency... "I do not agree with you there is a call for an English parliament, there is however, much stronger support for regional assemblies and referendums will be held in those regions thought to have the most interest".

THATS COMING FROM AN MP! Just goes to show how much they listen to us eh? I had great pleasure in sending that letter back to david jamieson after the referendum!

Ah well, yes. At least thay can't say you didn't warn them.

Exactly. So if they were wrong about support for regional assemblies (and how very wrong they were) why dont they hold a referendum on whether England should have its own parliament? But they wont, they are ignoring us, because they know it will be won and they dont want to see England's identity reinforced by a parliament.

I didn't say they already had withdrawn from the EU i said they will have the power to, if you read it properly

And if YOU had read it properly you would have seen that I didn't say you said they'd already withdrawn. I said you said "they already had THE POWER to withdraw"

Here's what you said first of all:-

"Believe it or not, Scotland has the power to withdraw from the EU as it is recognised as a single nation."

Then you changed it to this:-

"Scotland will have the power soon to withdraw from the EU singally as 1 nation."

See? notice the difference? So, which one is it? Do they have the power to withdraw from the EU, or don't they? If they don't now, at what point will they have?

"The Scottish and Welsh parliaments have different powers because the two sets of electorate voted for two different packages."

WELL OBVIOUSLY! Bceause wales and scotland are 2 nations! blimey!
if England had voted for its own parliament, there would be a 3rd, correct? 1-2-3 yeah? ABC?



My comment about the differences in the Scottish and Welsh parliaments was in direct response to your statement that "an English parliament would have the same powers as has been given to Scotland."

I'm sorry to have to repeat myself, but it won't. At least, not necessarily. The Welsh and Scottish ones have different powers because their electorates wanted different things. Unless you believe that you speak for the entire English nation you have no idea what type of Parliament the electorate in England would vote for. Assuming, of course, that they want one at all.


So, how's the search for the Tony Blair quote going?

engman, scotland and wales do not have the power to remove themselves from from the EU. your talking rubbish. we live in the UK. internationally, on your passport, in the UN we are the UK. there is no nation of scotland in formal procedings outside of football. they are not legally allowed to vote themselves out of europe as are the welsh. so stfu already.

and who is the 'we' you talk about? you and who else? i have never heard anyone so rabidly insane talk such fallacy and whimsy as you. who is this horrible 'they' that is keeping your nation down? the goverment?! have you taken your medication today? stop talking shite.

your quite clearly a loon. there isnt really much else can be said. you cannot govern in a 'grassroots' style for 50 million as you can for 5. hence the regional structure. 'they' are not breaking england into pieces. its still fucking england! if you cut a pizza into slices does that suddenly make it not a pizza? only to the crazy people who cant see the whole. they have to be especially crazy if it has a label on it saying what it is.

Oooh its been like a wee docu drama. I've been enthralled.

Just a few points.

The West Lothian Question is nothing to do with Scottish MP's voting on English matters it is to do with the fact that Scottish people are disproportionately represented in the House of commons. ie there are less Scots per MP than English per MP. Legislation has been passed to solve this problem and the number of Scottish MP's will be reduced to an appropriate number.

No Scotland could not withraw from the EU. Foreign policy is not a devolved power. It would be interesting to see what happened if it did, although I'd bet the Scots are much more pro European than the English. Notice the miniscule polling of UKip in the Scottish elections (and yes they did stand)

Scots not only don't pay top up fees, they don't pay any fees to universities. There was a 1 year crossover when the Scottish Parliament was in its infancy but the wrong done by the Labour UK govt was undone by the Lib/Lab coalition in Scotland. This is a Lib Dem policy which is unliely to be implemented in England and Wales because of the slim chance of the Lib Dem's having any say in government. Interestingly the Lib Dems are also the fourth largest party in Scotland but hold the balance of power.

Sorry to offend you earlier Eng, I was being flippant. I look forward to a stirring debate in future. ;)

engman, scotland and wales do not have the power to remove themselves from from the EU. your talking rubbish. we live in the UK. internationally, on your passport, in the UN we are the UK. there is no nation of scotland in formal procedings outside of football. they are not legally allowed to vote themselves out of europe as are the welsh. so stfu already.

and who is the 'we' you talk about? you and who else? i have never heard anyone so rabidly insane talk such fallacy and whimsy as you. who is this horrible 'they' that is keeping your nation down? the goverment?! have you taken your medication today? stop talking shite.

your quite clearly a loon. there isnt really much else can be said. you cannot govern in a 'grassroots' style for 50 million as you can for 5. hence the regional structure. 'they' are not breaking england into pieces. its still fucking england! if you cut a pizza into slices does that suddenly make it not a pizza? only to the crazy people who cant see the whole. they have to be especially crazy if it has a label on it saying what it is.

fuck you! when i say WE i speak of US... the English oops sorry politically correct "British", dumbass!

and yes... the government, i dont care what you say, there is enough evidence to suggest to me that England is being abolished by those we have elected. If you can't see that perhaps you live in scotland, wales or n ireland or your very blind.

Scotland WILL eventually gain enough power from westminster to withdraw from the EU. Otherwise, what was the point in setting up a scottish parliament? For independence! Just because England has the largest land mass and the largest population doesn't mean it has to be split into regions. Japan is fucking twice the population of England, is it split into regions?

Sorry, but i wont sit back whilst England is carved up into chunks, whilst the other nations of the UK remain entact. I dont see the other nations of the UK being partioned. and stfu you too

Oooh its been like a wee docu drama. I've been enthralled.

Just a few points.

The West Lothian Question is nothing to do with Scottish MP's voting on English matters it is to do with the fact that Scottish people are disproportionately represented in the House of commons. ie there are less Scots per MP than English per MP. Legislation has been passed to solve this problem and the number of Scottish MP's will be reduced to an appropriate number.

No Scotland could not withraw from the EU. Foreign policy is not a devolved power. It would be interesting to see what happened if it did, although I'd bet the Scots are much more pro European than the English. Notice the miniscule polling of UKip in the Scottish elections (and yes they did stand)

Scots not only don't pay top up fees, they don't pay any fees to universities. There was a 1 year crossover when the Scottish Parliament was in its infancy but the wrong done by the Labour UK govt was undone by the Lib/Lab coalition in Scotland. This is a Lib Dem policy which is unliely to be implemented in England and Wales because of the slim chance of the Lib Dem's having any say in government. Interestingly the Lib Dems are also the fourth largest party in Scotland but hold the balance of power.

Sorry to offend you earlier Eng, I was being flippant. I look forward to a stirring debate in future. ;)

No probs its alright, just a debate innit! :)

I would like to say - the scottish have always been more pro-european, before England united with scotland, the scots allied with france against England.

Regions are surely just another layer of government. Your nation isn't under threat. Countys are surely just another form of region aren't they.

Scotland used to have Regions until the Tories changed em in 1994 now we have Unitary Authorities, what's in a name?

Lancashire, Gloucestershire, Dorset, Somerset have all existed forever but that doesn't seem to be causing you much angst. They also have legislative powers and can enact bylaws that will not effect other parts of "England"

You will notice when you cross from Scotland to England, or Wales to England , there is a Welcome to England sign with not a St Georges Cross, but a Rose.

Where do you stand on the well establised Northerners vs Southerners debate in England, it's not exactly a monoculture is it?

I for one am proud to have a Scottish parliament with a whacky architectural place for it to do its business. Lest we forget that as expensive as it is, it is still less expensive than the new Wembley stadium which I would remind you is paid by for funds that came from a UK and not just an English purse

No,Jamie Davidson devonport, plymouth constituency... "I do not agree with you there is a call for an English parliament, there is however, much stronger support for regional assemblies and referendums will be held in those regions thought to have the most interest".

THATS COMING FROM AN MP! Just goes to show how much they listen to us eh? I had great pleasure in sending that letter back to david jamieson after the referendum!

I must admit Im stuggling to keep up, whats his name again? Jim Davidson?

Engman, you keep on stating that "we" want this and "we" want that, and now you say that this "we" that you keep quoting is "we" the English public, you are talking our of your arse, WE dont want anything to do with your provincial/xenophobic ideas.

actually i live in london. most of my friends are english, have been since i lived in malaysia 10 years ago. i consider myself scottish/irish through heritage only. i havent got much in common with anyone from 'home' anymore.

and the US/WE you speak of doesnt seem to be the same US/WE i know and live with and go to uni with and work with (in a political environment no less) so ummm your full of shit. imho.

Scotland WILL eventually gain enough power from westminster to withdraw from the EU. Otherwise, what was the point in setting up a scottish parliament? For independence!

actually, no... it can very easily be argued that it was implemented to avoid independance and has done a very good job of it. nationalsitic feeling in scotland has dropped of rapidly since we got our own parliament. before there was a drive to seperate. it was a clever maneuvre to give us most of what we want without seperating the country.

besides the actual given reason was to represent the scottish people on local issues better. to stop another government using the scots like the tories did under thatcher.


Scotland WILL eventually gain enough power from westminster to withdraw from the EU.

the power is already technically there. however there would have to be a referendum on independance (which every county in the UK is allowed under euro rights and the UK gov has already approved) and only if they were to vote to become a seperate nation could they then leave the EU.

Just because England has the largest land mass and the largest population doesn't mean it has to be split into regions.

england isnt being dissolved you fucking moron! argh! think about it! regions are another LAYER! there are regions in scotland aswell!!!!! district councils, local priories, bishophoods. there are hundreds of other layers. england is always going to be there no matter how many layers. your precious fucking country is still fucking there. get it?


Japan is fucking twice the population of England, is it split into regions?

and prolly has districts and councils also. surprise surprise. you cant run a country without them.

Sorry, but i wont sit back whilst England is carved up into chunks, whilst the other nations of the UK remain entact.

good, its not. now will you stop?

I must admit Im stuggling to keep up, whats his name again? Jim Davidson?

Engman, you keep on stating that "we" want this and "we" want that, and now you say that this "we" that you keep quoting is "we" the English public, you are talking our of your arse, WE dont want anything to do with your provincial/xenophobic ideas.

oops jameise not david, dunno where that camd from

england isnt being dissolved you fucking moron! argh! think about it! regions are another LAYER! there are regions in scotland aswell!!!!! district councils, local priories, bishophoods. there are hundreds of other layers. england is always going to be there no matter how many layers. your precious fucking country is still fucking there. get it?


no i dont fucking get it because its true, twat!
PERCISELY MY POINT: SCOTLAND IS NOT SPLIT INTO REGIONS, IT STILL HAS ITS ANTIENT COUNTY COUNCILS ENTACT AND IT HAS A PARLIAMENT AT THE HEAD OF THEM ALL. ENGLAND IS BEING ABOLISHED - TOO MUCH EVIDENCE TO SUGGEST IT.

The country councils of England would be ABOLISHED...DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT "ABOLISH" MEANS? IT MEANS GONE, FOREVER, SEISE TO EXIST!

Antient counties like northumberland and Devon would be lost forever, because apparently "counties have no place in the modern europe".

so fuck you!

"and prolly has districts and councils also. surprise surprise. you cant run a country without them"

My thoughts exactly, you cant run a country without councils!

no i dont fucking get it because its true, twat!
PERCISELY MY POINT: SCOTLAND IS NOT SPLIT INTO REGIONS, IT STILL HAS ITS ANTIENT COUNTY COUNCILS ENTACT AND IT HAS A PARLIAMENT AT THE HEAD OF THEM ALL. ENGLAND IS BEING ABOLISHED - TOO MUCH EVIDENCE TO SUGGEST IT.

The country councils of England would be ABOLISHED...DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT "ABOLISH" MEANS? IT MEANS GONE, FOREVER, SEISE TO EXIST!

Antient counties like northumberland and Devon would be lost forever, because apparently "counties have no place in the modern europe".

so fuck you!

:haha::haha:

I wish you would seise (sic) posting such drivel.

England doesnt have any country councils, and noone is trying to abolish any of the counties either.

Oh, and if you press that button which says [caps lock] it turns the capitals off ;)

oops jameise not david, dunno where that camd from
Now Im really confused!

Dont you understand counties? I said "county" not country councils. Each county of England has a county council, this is power closer to the people than what "regions" would ever do.

"England doesnt have any country councils, and noone is trying to abolish any of the counties either"

No one is trying to abolish county councils? Then what are regions doing??!
Prescott stated that "regional assemblies were his dream for a long time"... prescott is trying to abolish county councils!!!!

No one is trying to abolish county councils? Then what are regions doing??!
Prescott stated that "regional assemblies were his dream for a long time"... prescott is trying to abolish county councils!!!!
Retyping the same thing again and again does not make it true (if that were the case I would repeatedly tell you Id won the lottery)

Regional assemblies and county councils are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

And you did say country not county the first time.

Your misspelling isnt necessarily an issue, and I admit it makes me a pedant for picking up on it, but when you continue to ignore questions that others ask you regarding facts and figures that you mention added to an attitude that precludes any reasonable discussion (calling someone a twat and telling them to fuck off?) you cant expect anything else :)

Well to correct you there, i am only abusive when someone is abusive toward me, like for example, if you read back previously before i sent that message. I was called a "fucking moron", so what do YOU expect??

And i said England is MADE up of county councils, not England is a county council, crying out loud!

Perhaps you could remind me what this mystery question is?

Wow! So you can only get BBC England if you have sky? Should it not be available to all the people of England? Just as BBC Scotland is to all the people in Scotland?

Perhaps you could remind me what this mystery question is?
I already have done in another thread, in fact I did so 3 or 4 times, you didnt answer though, you just posted links to other sites where you expect me to find the answers.


...... i have already given you a link but perhaps you dont wish to view it because your too ignorant to know the truth? www.thecep.org.uk & www.ukip.org.uk

These will answer your questions. I dont make anything up which i have put onto this website they are facts and figures which have come from political parties and organizations. ok?


I see that one of the things theyre banging on about on that site is that the Scotish pensioners get free heating, its a very good point. Shame they dont mention that the over 70's in England get £200 towards thier heating bills, and the over 80's get £400, this is NOT means tested, it gets given to all those who qualify by age. They also forget that it gets a lot bloody colder in Scotland.

I think the scheme used for the rest of the UK is better for the following reason. In Scotland someone who owns a mansion worth £1 million gets thier heating paid for, in England they get £200 or £400 towards thier bill. In the rest of the UK the £200 or £400 is much more beneficial to those who are poorer. It is, quite simply, yet another example of Scottish MP's not thinking things through. I am glad that our government isnt this wasteful.

This is the funniest bit though, stop me if youve heard this one.... Theres an old couple in Scotland called Liz and Phil, they own a castle, and under the rules laid down by the Scotish government they now gets free heating, this is especially good news for Liz and Phil as they have all thier family round for Christmas each year. Its nice to know that the Scottish are supporting our Royal Family so well :D

It's a pitty they dont get free heating in northern England as it can get just as cold there as anywhere in Scotland. As for the money for central heating, thats news to me. My grandma has never mentioned to me about getting £200 towards her central heating, she struggles to pay it. £200 for central heating is meant to last a pensioner all year??!

Nice story, apparently they are the "British Royal Family" even though most of them have English decent.

So. You put it forward that pensioners in England get £200 towards their central heating. (again news to me)
What about... free prescriptions for the under 25s, and reduced prescriptions for everybody else for all in Wales?

and

no home care charges for the disabled, for those in Wales

and

free breakfasts for all primary school pupils, for those in Wales

and

free entry to swimming pools for older people and school pupils during holidays, for those in Wales

and

an extension of the free bus travel scheme, for those in Wales only

and

a promise of no top up fees in Welsh universities for the duration of the next Assembly - top up fees were imposed upon English students by the votes of Scottish and Welsh MPs, English MPs voted against top-up fees.

Do you see England benefiting from any of these? Is there a parliament solely for England that is trying to get the same benefits for us? Nope!

Check out this website, one of the very first (and excellent) anthems ever proposed for an anthem for England.

The English, the most discriminated race in their own country, no English assembly, no English national holiday, at least give us our own Anthem.

http://www.englandanthem.com/download.htm

Engman, once again you miss the point. The rich people in Scotland get a lot more out of the policy brought in by the Scottish parliament than the poor people who really need help.

Conversly in the rest of the UK poor people benefit more than rich people from the set payment of £200 or £400.

You and the sites you quote only seem to be concerned with negative headlines, you knew nothing of the Winter Fuel Payment which I have quoted. This goes to every household with a person aged over 70 or over 80. In addition Every household with someone over 70 will recieve an extra £100. (again this is more useful to those who are less well off) see the DWP website http://www.dwp.gov.uk/mediacentre/pressreleases/2004/march/pens-boost-170304.asp

Nice story, apparently they are the "British Royal Family" even though most of them have English decent.

Well, apart from all of them who are of Germanic decent :)

You continually quote one side of the story, and thats the negative side. The Winter Fuel Payment has been heavily publisised and is widely known about, the only reason you could have failed to spot it is that you are only interested in what Scotland and Wales are getting, not what we are getting.

You quote no home care charges for the disabled in Wales, you fail to mention that any disabled person in the rest of the UK also benefits from this IF they qualify. IE if they dont have £1000's in the bank. I think its much fairer to support those who cant support themselves than it is to support everyone, if someone can easilt afford thier own care then they should pay for it.

Free breakfasts for primary school children ? Surely this will mainly benefit those people who are working and are too busy to be able to feed thier children. This should be means tested.

I could go on, but you should be able to work it out for yourself.

It's a pitty they dont get free heating in northern England as it can get just as cold there as anywhere in Scotland.
Well, they had an oportunity to vote for a regional assemly, unfortunately there were to many naysayers like yourself who publisised the bad points of this without mentioning the benefits. If theyd had a regional assembly they could have had free heating all year round if thats what they wanted to choose.

Back on the subject of heating, I suggest you (and your grandma) go and have a proper look at the site you quoted earlier, it has links to the age concern website which provides real and useful help for people over 60, you may not be able to spot the link though because its so small(see pic below) I guess they were more concerned with naysaying than helping people !

http://members.lycos.co.uk/TheMrNice/tinylink.gif

The link shown goes to the following website www.ageconcern.org.uk (http://www.ageconcern.org.uk/AgeConcern/information_285.htm) click on the .pdf documant for the info. It also tells you about Grants which are available (again these are means tested, for obvious reasons) Be sure to mention these to people when you next say that the scots get something we dont ;)

So it takes you to age conern website? Whats your point?
The OAPs in England have to find out that they can recieve funding for their central heating? Why doesn't the government tell every oap in England that they can recieve £200 for their heating?
Scottish pensioners still get it free.

You dont seem to have mentioned anything about what the welsh get over us. Shall i remind you again?

1. extend free prescriptions to all;
2. end home care charges for the disabled;
3. introduce free breakfasts for all primary school pupils;
4. free entry to swimming pools for older people and school pupils during holidays;
5. an extension of the free bus travel scheme;
6. and a promise of no top up fees in Welsh universities for the duration of the next Assembly - top up fees were imposed upon English students by the votes of Scottish and Welsh MPs, English MPs voted against top-up fees.

None of this applys to England. Wales only. Wales are still part of the UK, making them equal citizens with the English. So why do they get more benefits than the English people? Is this what you call equality?

You'll notice, if you have read the information on age concern and how to preserve engery (the link from www.thcep.org.uk website) that it states those on a LOW income may recieve £100 for pensioners aged over 60. Someone that lives in Scotland, however, will get FREE central heating, whatever their income. Again, equality?

Engman: Will you stop requoting entire posts. Quote what you need or don't quote at all.

Also.. multiposting sucks. Think about your response first, and try to write something cohesive. Don't just create a new post every time you think of something else to say.

1. extend free prescriptions to all;
> Stupid Idea, people who can afford to pay should pay, the current system allows for people with ongoing conditions to get free medicine (my girlfriend is a diabetic and gets all her medication free) Why should someone who earns for example £50,000 per year get free presciptions? It doesnt make sense, the current system works very well. Additionally, if someone needs constant medication and they arent legible for free prescriptions they are able to purchase an exemption card (cost about £100 per year) so that they dont pay for prescriptions. Again I will ask - why should people who can easily afford to pay be allowed to get thier medicine for free and be a burden on the NHS?

2. end home care charges for the disabled; I will answer this one for the second time too, disabled people in this country get free care if they qualify under the means test. That means that Millionaires dot get it for nothing, good isnt it. Please tell me why you think that Millionaires should get free care.

3. introduce free breakfasts for all primary school pupils; I will answer this one again too. Free breakfasts for primary school children ? Surely this will mainly benefit those people who are working and are too busy to be able to feed thier children. This should be means tested. Dont you agree? if not please explain why.

4. free entry to swimming pools for older people and school pupils during holidays; Ah yes, this is very high on my list of priorities for a better Britian!

5. an extension of the free bus travel scheme; only one problem with that Free bus travel for pensioners 'makes fares unjustly high' (http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=1164232004)

6. and a promise of no top up fees in Welsh universities for the duration of the next Assembly - top up fees were imposed upon English students by the votes of Scottish and Welsh MPs, English MPs voted against top-up fees. Top up fees are an entire topic on thier own, cant answer that one here without going completely offtopic.

Now Ive answered your questions, many of them twice, perhaps you could explain why you disagree with these views ?

You'll notice, if you have read the information on age concern and how to preserve engery (the link from www.thcep.org.uk website) that it states those on a LOW income may recieve £100 for pensioners aged over 60. Someone that lives in Scotland, however, will get FREE central heating, whatever their income. Again, equality?

Please reread my previous answer, aditionally dont forget about all the other help people in the UK can get if they qualify. Pensioners are actually better off in Britian due to all the grants they can get, of course, this isnt for more wealthy people who dont actually need the help. Like I said, with the system outside Scotland it is fairer as it provides more care for those who need it and cant otherwise afford it.

MrNice wrote: "1. extend free prescriptions to all;
> Stupid Idea, people who can afford to pay should pay, the current system allows for people with ongoing conditions to get free medicine (my girlfriend is a diabetic and gets all her medication free) Why should someone who earns for example £50,000 per year get free presciptions? It doesnt make sense, the current system works very well. Additionally, if someone needs constant medication and they arent legible for free prescriptions they are able to purchase an exemption card (cost about £100 per year) so that they dont pay for prescriptions. Again I will ask - why should people who can easily afford to pay be allowed to get thier medicine for free and be a burden on the NHS?

2. end home care charges for the disabled; I will answer this one for the second time too, disabled people in this country get free care if they qualify under the means test. That means that Millionaires dot get it for nothing, good isnt it. Please tell me why you think that Millionaires should get free care.

3. introduce free breakfasts for all primary school pupils; I will answer this one again too. Free breakfasts for primary school children ? Surely this will mainly benefit those people who are working and are too busy to be able to feed thier children. This should be means tested. Dont you agree? if not please explain why.

4. free entry to swimming pools for older people and school pupils during holidays; Ah yes, this is very high on my list of priorities for a better Britian!"



"Why should someone who earns for example £50,000 per year get free presciptions?" - Percisely! The fact remains that England is not benefiting from this and for as long as the welsh assembly exists, so will the benefits. Not fair, is it?

I dont think millionaires should get free health care, the fact is they ARE in Wales! And yes, i agree, it is wrong. It's not equality. Better to treat everyone with it though, rather than just the small majority of Wales, dont you think?

"
Surely this will mainly benefit those people who are working and are too busy to be able to feed thier children"

A darn site lot more in England then.

Still you dont seem to admit, even though these benefits aren't nessecerily equality, they still provide the people of Wales what the people of England aren't getting. Even if it is just free entry into swimming pools, its still a benfit, isn't it? Again... there is no political party, or organization which plans to bring the same benfits to the people of England.

But were not paying for that, the Welsh and Scottish are. So all your points become irrelevant, just like trying to discuss anything with you is irrelevant, you ignore all the facts and requote the misinformation you have been fed.

Never argue with idiots. They just drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience.
Yes, I do believe you are right.

But.

I have 2 Marlboro lights left: the first one says "don't", the second one says "It's like arguing with lapafrax but without the unpredictability and sheer inyerface bezazz".

Which one have I lit?

But were not paying for that, the Welsh and Scottish are. So all your points become irrelevant, just like trying to discuss anything with you is irrelevant, you ignore all the facts and requote the misinformation you have been fed.


Yes, I do believe you are right.

up yours!
I dont ignore the facts. I believe it is you that has been ignoring the facts. I have given so many relevant facts for why England needs its own parliament to deal with its own affairs.

AND yes we are paying for it... if you suspect that you are foolish. I've already mentioned this and it looks as though you have ignored that too... what the English are paying for the scots new parliament: £86million because scotland cant afford to foot the bill! If the government is going to spend £86 million on their parliament, they will quite easily spend our money on the welsh. England is the largest mass in these islands, our population is twice that of scotland and wales put together, therefore the government makes more money out of us than any other nation of the UK when taxed. Therefore our expenditure is their pleasure. :fact:

Stuff the barnett formula where the sun doesn't shine.

Mmff. Both, actually.

Engman17, are you Nicholas (nimby) Ridley?

England is the largest mass in these islands, our population is twice that of scotland and wales put together, therefore the government makes more money out of us than any other nation of the UK when taxed. Therefore our expenditure is their pleasure.

You may be right. I don't know. But what is also true is that the only region in the whole of Britain that generates more in tax revenues than it consumes in subsudies and public service spending is London. So how about you give back all those leisure centres, bus and train stations and healthcare facilities?

Hint: your tax is not supposed to be spent on you. If it was, it wouldn't be tax.

You may be right. I don't know. But what is also true is that the only region in the whole of Britain that generates more in tax revenues than it consumes in subsudies and public service spending is London. So how about you give back all those leisure centres, bus and train stations and healthcare facilities?

Hint: your tax is not supposed to be spent on you. If it was, it wouldn't be tax.

oook. Then whats it for? Not the NHS then? Tony Blair pays for that out of his own pocket?

Perhaps London does generate the most money. But last time i checked, London was part of England. Isn't it the capital or something?

oook. Then whats it for? ?

Um, think of it as an insurance policy against bad things .

Um, think of it as an insurance policy against bad things .

Oh that would be if we accidently spent too much on the scots and welsh then?

oook. Then whats it for? Not the NHS then? Tony Blair pays for that out of his own pocket?

You appear to be confused. Your tone seems to suggest that you are disagreeing with what I posted, yet the logic of your argument does not refute mine. Perhaps you'd like to go for a stroll to clear your head, then tell me what the fuck it is you're talking about?

You appear to be confused. Your tone seems to suggest that you are disagreeing with what I posted, yet the logic of your argument does not refute mine. Perhaps you'd like to go for a stroll to clear your head, then tell me what the fuck it is you're talking about?

Dont know. Call me childish but You started it!

"Hint: your tax is not supposed to be spent on you. If it was, it wouldn't be tax"

Oh that would be if we accidently spent too much on the scots and welsh then?

Don't be silly. It's for if your brain goes all wonky and you need 24 hour care, or so the police can come and remove a rastaman who's denting your privet and eyeing your mondeo. Oh, yeah, for education - so old folk like me can have a compliant, useful workforce to keep them in their dotage.

*Sigh*

Ok, one of the main purposes of taxation is to redistribute welath from those least in need to those most in need. It also serves to pay for projects and services that benefit from central planning and that are required to run a nation, city or town in the 21st century. This means that it is possible that you might use services paid for by your tax pounds, but if you don't, you can't ask for your money back.

Right?

Don't be silly. It's for if your brain goes all wonky and you need 24 hour care, or so the police can come and remove a rastaman who's denting your privet and eyeing your mondeo. Oh, yeah, for education - so old folk like me can have a compliant, useful workforce to keep them in their dotage.

Oh, so it is the NHS then? Didn't i say that just now?

*Sigh*

Ok, one of the main purposes of taxation is to redistribute welath from those least in need to those most in need. It also serves to pay for projects and services that benefit from central planning and that are required to run a nation, city or town in the 21st century. This means that it is possible that you might use services paid for by your tax pounds, but if you don't, you can't ask for your money back.

Right?

Right. Carry on...

Oh, so it is the NHS then? Didn't i say that just now?

Well. In my bumbling way I exemplified 3 types of "service". What's wrong with paying taxes for any of them? What's wrong with London paying over the odds for all of them?

Well. In my bumbling way I exemplified 3 types of "service". What's wrong with paying taxes for any of them? What's wrong with London paying over the odds for all of them?

London has the highest population of any city in England, therefore it is bound to raise more cash! Fact remains, London is English, so why should the Londoners complain that money raised in London is infact being spent on all of England. English is English, England is England.

London isn't a nation in its own right!

I surrender. :chav:

wiffacee.

:stupid:

London has the highest population of any city in England, therefore it is bound to raise more cash! Fact remains, London is English, so why should the Londoners complain that money raised in London is infact being spent on all of England. English is English, England is England.

London isn't a nation in its own right!

And neither are Scotland or Wales.

Now can I rest my case? My arm is hurting.

English is English
Except when its American English!

what the English are paying for the scots new parliament: £86million because scotland cant afford to foot the bill! If the government is going to spend £86 million on their parliament, they will quite easily spend our money on the welsh. England is the largest mass in these islands, our population is twice that of scotland and wales put together, therefore the government makes more money out of us than any other nation of the UK when taxed. Therefore our expenditure is their pleasure.

Once again you highlight one single thing yet miss another. This is the way it works sometimes they benefit from us, sometimes we benefit from them, its often known as swings and roundabouts.

How much of Scottish and Welsh Taxes were spent on the millenium dome? What? you cant tell me? now theres a suprise! Between them they paid a considerable ammount towards that building and whether you liked it or not it was in England and the English gained more benefit from it than anyone else. The Welsh and Scottish paid a disproportionate amount when you consider who got more use out of it.

And neither are Scotland or Wales.

Now can I rest my case? My arm is hurting.

Scotland is a nation, it is 65% independent from the UK and Wales is a nation too apparently. Write to the government, they will tell you this! Whereas England no longer exists in government and EU maps!

Whereas England no longer exists in government and EU maps!

Another lie.

I found this after searching for less than 2 mins via Google, its a government site.

http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/commondata/103196/908379?lang=_e&theme=&region=&subject=&searchfor=england

or this one

http://www.highways.gov.uk/trafficinfo/

or this

http://www.countryside.gov.uk/access/mapping/

Another lie.

I found this after searching for less than 2 mins via Google, its a government site.

http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/commondata/103196/908379?lang=_e&theme=&region=&subject=&searchfor=england

I didnt bother looking further because you are now posting downright lies

wow, hazardous waste eh? Pitty they dont show it like this on national maps and in record books throughout the UK! Go to your local library and pull out a book of the UK, chances are, if its a new book it will mention England but may not be labled on actual maps of the UK. Shame, isn't it?

lol, downright lies. England is regionalised on that map, partioned left right and centre. Wales isn't. Yes, the government may still use "England" as a phrase, but they dont recognise England as a distinct nation in the UK.

Not forgetting the football team. Actually, yeah, let's forget about them.

I saw a sign on the A1 saying Richmondshire *(may hav been A19).
Also there are those silly people pro-Rutland (major battle, Jellicoe, what!).

Methinks this is a tipping moment for Anarcho-Syndicalism, if only I had nuff shampain.

/er, sorry. Jutland, Heligoland, etc etc. Carry on.

lol, downright lies. England is regionalised on that map, partioned left right and centre. Wales isn't. Yes, the government may still use "England" as a phrase, but they dont recognise England as a distinct nation in the UK.
Yes, downright lies, and when you are proved to be lying you deny it.

I posted the first 3 links out of thousands and still you are saying black is white.

you said
Whereas England no longer exists in government and EU maps!

and I proved you wrong, rather than admit you were wrong/lying you moved the goalpost once again, now claiming that its a shame blah blah blah.

I saw a sign on the A1 saying Richmondshire *(may hav been A19).
Also there are those silly people pro-Rutland (major battle, Jellicoe, what!).

Methinks this is a tipping moment for Anarcho-Syndicalism, if only I had nuff shampain.

/er, sorry. Jutland, Heligoland, etc etc. Carry on.

That reminds me actually. Thank you for bringing the topic up....

If you ever travel long distances accross the UK you might have noticed the "regions" are listed, such as "THE SOUTH WEST". But when you head towards Wales, for example, it says "WALES" but when leaving Wales it will say "SOUTH WEST" rather than "ENGLAND". Why dont they list England on road signs?

oh look heres another DEFRA.gov.uk (http://www.defra.gov.uk/environment/water/quality/nitrate/maps.htm#Summary)

Its a government Map, it is only relevant for England, it hasnt been split into regions.

what did you say ...

Whereas England no longer exists in government and EU maps!

LIAR

Er, cos it don't matter.

They used to have a sign on the A68 that said welcome to Ingerland but the deer piss used to stain it. So they changed it to "Welcome to South Shields - Catherine Cookson Country", even deer wouldn't piss on that.

See?

Yes, downright lies, and when you are proved to be lying you deny it.

I posted the first 3 links out of thousands and still you are saying black is white.

you said


and I proved you wrong, rather than admit you were wrong/lying you moved the goalpost once again, now claiming that its a shame blah blah blah.

LOL!
I've moved no goal posts mate, the fact is that map which you have managed to get from somewhere is not used as a national map! It is not the offical map of the UK! I have formally complained to the EU for having border lines in England (which can be viwed on their map of the UK on europa website) which do not exist and never have done. All they can say is that these regions exist because they are for european electoral issues only. BULLSHIT! Is that why the north east just had a referendum on a regional assembly?

Er, cos it don't matter.

They used to have a sign on the A68 that said welcome to Ingerland but the deer piss used to stain it. So they changed it to "Welcome to South Shields - Catherine Cookson Country", even deer wouldn't piss on that.

See?

Oh, so it doesn't say welcome to England anymore? Its now welcome to South Shields? Why not welcome to England?

I am using your quote again....
Whereas England no longer exists in government and EU maps!


Its a government Map, it is only relevant for England, it hasnt been split into regions, it says England at the top.

DEFRA.gov.uk (http://www.defra.gov.uk/environment/water/quality/nitrate/maps.htm#Summary)

you sir, are a liar.

Cos the deer like to piss on England, but they like Catherine Cookson, silly.

All done to save the southern taxpayer.

MRNICE:

See you are quick enough to call me a liar and not admit that i am wrong, but i haven't yet heard you say that i am right that its wrong the people of wales are getting benefits the English are not.

Answer this, (YES or NO) is it right the people of Wales should have benefits that the English dont?

OH! and notice at the bottom of your map you found... it says "regional information" "north east" "south west" ETC ETC!

Europa (http://europa.eu.int/abc/maps/members/uk_en.htm)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v409/Z-247/ScreenHunter_002.jpg

Yep! It says England. But its split into regions. Scotland & wales aren't divided, why England? These regions dont even exist and never have done since our history began!!

Ok, you gotta map, now its my turn, feast your eyes on THIS...

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.iheem.org.uk/images/map/uk-map

http://www.iheem.org.uk/branches/index.php

thats better

MRNICE:

See you are quick enough to call me a liar and not admit that i am wrong, but i haven't yet heard you say that i am right that its wrong the people of wales are getting benefits the English are not.

Answer this, (YES or NO) is it right the people of Wales should have benefits that the English dont?
YES it is right, the welsh should have benefits that the English dont get, in the same way that the English get benefits that the Welsh dont get, ok, Ive answered your question now answer mine

You said that England didnt appear on any Government maps and Ive proved you wrong on several occasions, you also said that it didnt appear on any EU maps and the link below proves that wrong to, will you now admit you were lying?

How about this European map from the EU

http://www.europarl.org.uk/publications/map/TheEU25.jpg (warning 1.1Mb)

Yes its devided into region AND it says England on it :)

(note almost every large country is divided into regions)

You are proved wrong yet again.

An analogy on regions, when you get the phone directory out do you get the English Phone directory out or one for your region? The answer is obvious. The reason why the country gets split into regions is so that we can manage our interests more easily.

http://www.iheem.org.uk/branches/index.php

Maybe it's because they only have ONE office in Scotland/Wales/Northern Ireland, and SEVERAL offices across England.

Not to mention one in Abu Dhabi and another in Hong Kong. Seem to go for anywhere the deer don't piss.

See you are quick enough to call me a liar and not admit that i am wrong
Thats not right, I am quite happy to admit you are wrong :)

FAO Engman17.

I am asking you again. Would you please stop over using quotes. Rather than quote an entire persons post and offer a lame response (which lets face it, is becoming a trademark of yours), why don't you actually THINK about your response and just quote the bits you need.

By only using specific points from another persons post, you will help the flow of the debate, and make the forum more readable.
What is the point in quoting the entirety of the previous post? We know exactly what they wrote, and don't need reminding.

All of this is pointed out in the Mass Debate FAQ cunningly titled Mass Debate Forum - Please Read Me (http://board.dogbomb.co.uk/announcement.php?f=110)

Any follow ups (if any are neccesary) to this should be through PM's.

/Off Topic

Everywhere you look, there is English discrimination, go to tesco and you'll see groceries that were produced in English labled with the union flag, whereas products produced in Scotland, Wales and N. Ireland are labled with their own flags! Next time your in Tesco, take a look at their cheeses inpiticular and you'll see!

Why not shop at Asda? All their cheeses seem to be labelled with the appropriate little flags.

Do you think we should get Engman and Lapafrax together?

Why not shop at Asda? All their cheeses seem to be labelled with the appropriate little flags.

Isn't that unpatriotic, because Asda are owned by Americans.

There is no "America", Central America, South America and North America, I believe it is the latter to which you refer, in which case it should be known as The United States of America.

Yeah Daveyboy... you should have used the internationally recognized "United Statesian" instead of "American" to refer to citizens of the United States of America.

Do you mean its been regionalised ? :)

Cross the Severn Bridge into Engerl;and from Wales and there is a sign which says

Welcome to England

Croesio e Loegr

One sign, two languages. Irrefutable proof. Go there and shut up!

Yep! It says England. But its split into regions. Scotland & wales aren't divided, why England? These regions dont even exist and never have done since our history began!!

Ok, you gotta map, now its my turn, feast your eyes on THIS...

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.iheem.org.uk/images/map/uk-map


Ireland's divided too? Perhaps the EU is trying to abolish countries altogether?

Would someone please close this thread!

Yeah, but no, but yeah, but.. yeah.. what was once an interesting thread has now become lame.

Closed.