The first wave of election pamphlets has hit us, and I'm starting to have unclean thoughts :(

Labour have had it, Lib Dems never had it in the first place and it might be corking fun to have a Manta-type MP in my constituency instead of the slimy David Miliband.

I'm thinking of voting tory in the local elections.

Most people don't trust the tories so the situation would be the exact opposite of when 'New Labour' took charge. They wouldn't get away with a fraction of what the care blairs have so they'd have to work extra-hard to keep us happy.

EU laws and this Political Correctness lark has made us more compassionate, understanding and tolerant since the last time they were in charge and it would be hilarious to see Tory-boy types choking on their own words as they would HAVE to be PC.

Or maybe I just want to make an ill-advised protest vote. Can anyone convince me NOT to vote Conservative?

PS - this page of spotty Tory boy types posing with toff totty had no influence whatsoever on my decision ;)

http://www.dumbarton-conservatives.fsnet.co.uk/ycphotos.htm

Vote Green. I really want ot see what happens when they actually achieve some power!

But considering I'm an Anarchist, I don't really care - I prefer to rule myself.

Abstain. They are all muppets.

I can think of two words that should prevent you from voting tory:

Michael Howard.

Don't do it, dude.


Having said that, I'm not voting at all in the next election.

Vote Green. I really want ot see what happens when they actually achieve some power!

Heh, I did that when I was 18. You should have heard the grief I got, but they did put an ad out in the local paper thanking the 110 people that voted for them. Sweet.

I stayed in a commune for a couple of weeks and was quite shocked by how the most bumptious people called the shots there. As a result of that experience I'm not sure what would happen if the Greens took over :\

An excellent two-word defence there Dazzla and I can't argue against it. I wonder if Mr Howard could hack it as PM, as sadly for him the Mantas of this world are a very small minority these days. If only the tories could just drag themselves out of the 19th Century...

i quite liked the recent party political broadcast by the labour party (or was it just scottish labour?) showing some of Michael Howard's past 'achievements' whilst playing Simply Red's 'if you don't know me by now'
not only did it remind people of what a wanker Howard is, but it linked him indelibly in peoples minds with the evil that is Mick Hucknall

I would vote Monster Raving Loony, but I can't tell any of the main parties apart.

I have a right and the ability to vote, and I feel that not voting will be disrespectful towards those who fought and died for my right to exercise political choice. None of the main parties appeal, none of the minor parties appeal.

Am I right in thinking that if you spoil the ballot paper they have to count that?

The Labour party aren't socialists, the Conservatives aren't conservative, and the Liberals are so open minded their brains seem to have fallen out.

Oh, and the Greens are pretentious dickheads, the BNP are just dickheads, and the Anarchists never show up.

So, no matter who you are, or what your views there is nobody you can vote for! I love this country!

I really am ashamed to say I don't give a stuff - i know I should but I don't, I just can not muster any interest. They are all the same

of course there's someone to vote for... George W Bush!

Oh wait, he only runs our country from afar.

Dazzla spouted:
Having said that, I'm not voting at all in the next election.

Then I trust you won't complain about the government for the next 5 years.

Actually, not voting should entitle one to complain even more.... not only about the government, but about the people that voted for them. It should be the voters of the successful party that are barred from complaining. People that don't vote can be objective about their criticism because they don't have an interest in a rival party.

Gentreau spouted:


Then I trust you won't complain about the government for the next 5 years.

Of course I will.

If everyone followed my lead, there would be a forced change as no party would get enough votes to get into parliament.

Action through non-participation. Or passive aggression, if you will.

New Labour's political broadcast was condemed by the public, the press and even Labour MPs. There wasn't even a mention of any policies. Instead it was a personal attack on Michael Howard recalling events firmly in the past bearing no relevance to the politics of today, that came across as nasty and desperate. How typically New Labour to fight its election campaigns on image rather than substance. It's no surprise they use such tactics when they have nothing else to cheer about.

Hugh, I get the feeling you're pulling my leg appealing for political advice, and I'm sure you predicted the reactions from other Dogbombers to the suggestion you'd consider voting Tory. But if you are genuinely interested, then click this link (http://www.conservatives.com/) have a read and see what you think. If you decide to join the Tories, I will welcome you into the Party with open arms, travel up to South Shields to help rally the troops and buy you a pint of John Smith's at your local. I'll even try and get you a date with one of our Dumbarton supporters. :)

Dazzla spouted:


Of course I will.

If everyone followed my lead, there would be a forced change as no party would get enough votes to get into parliament.

Action through non-participation. Or passive aggression, if you will.

In a country with approx. 46 million eligible voters, what's the probability everyone of them will abstain? And should this occur, exactly what would this "forced change" bring, anarchy? I don't think you've thought this through very carefully.

In a country with approx. 46 million eligible voters, what's the probability everyone of them will abstain?

Very low, almost zero. But I'm applying the Satrean formula for testing the morality of an action.

And should this occur, exactly what would this "forced change" bring, anarchy?

Probably. What if it did?

Excellent graffiti from the seventies -

DON'T VOTE, THE GOVERNMENT WILL GET IN

zed247 spouted:
Actually, not voting should entitle one to complain even more.... not only about the government, but about the people that voted for them. It should be the voters of the successful party that are barred from complaining. People that don't vote can be objective about their criticism because they don't have an interest in a rival party.


am i the only one who finds this post ridiculous? really, really ridiculous.

Nowt wrong with it.

^Manta^ spouted:
Hugh, I get the feeling you're pulling my leg appealing for political advice, and I'm sure you predicted the reactions from other Dogbombers to the suggestion you'd consider voting Tory. But if you are genuinely interested, then click this link (http://www.conservatives.com/) have a read and see what you think. If you decide to join the Tories, I will welcome you into the Party with open arms, travel up to South Shields to help rally the troops and buy you a pint of John Smith's at your local. I'll even try and get you a date with one of our Dumbarton supporters. :)


Well that's a very tempting offer Manta (note also: Tories are also more grateful). I was appealing to other dogbombers to talk me out of it, not asking you to talk me into it though :)

There are some interesting campaigns on your website. 'Save our supplements' and abolishing tuition fees are very commendable. Also I was surprised the North East has a tory MEP. But I am a fan of the EU which might damage my tory credentials.

What we need are 'New conservatives' - I quite like the idea of sticking it to Tony as a progressive tory.

I'm not even taking the piss. That scares me in itself. Remember Mauda? Well he puts it far better than I ever could, for example on the Boris Johnson thread...

http://www.dogbomb.co.uk/board/showthread.php?s=&postid=176134#post176134

Every post he makes on that page is cracking stuff. It's no coincidence that my IQ effectively halved when Mauda left. I bloody loved that guy!

ok lets break it down.

not voting should entitle a person to moan more, not only about the government, but those who voted for them.

what arwe you smoking? if you dont vote then you have no right to complain at all. you have removed yourself completely from the democratic process yet feel you should then be allowed to moan its not how you'd like and also moan that others like it that way. yes lots of sense in that.

you know i'm not even gonna bother continuing. i cant believe this i really cant.

Actually, I have re-read my post several times and the more I read it, the more sense it makes.....but since you can't be bothered, neither will I :D

you seem to have a problem with your brain being missing.

i wonder if non top dogs can use the block function? time to find out!!

Ooooh, getting bitter because I have a different opinion to you?

Shame shame.

I think most people have come around to the view that the Liberal Democrats give us the best chance of a sensible rational goverment that ultimatly makes us all better off.

i'd like to say that i agree with zed's post
the situation at the moment makes a mockery of democracy. the current choice is no choice at all

who would you like as your baby sitter: gary glitter, ian huntley or ian brady? what do you mean 'none of them'?

Originally posted by zed247
People that don't vote can be objective about their criticism because they don't have an interest in a rival party.

Why? They are effectively giving their vote to someone else! The best you can do is objectively choose who is best for the country at that time. Which at the moment is nigh-on impossible :(

wbps spouted:
I would vote Monster Raving Loony, but I can't tell any of the main parties apart.

I have a right and the ability to vote, and I feel that not voting will be disrespectful towards those who fought and died for my right to exercise political choice. None of the main parties appeal, none of the minor parties appeal.

Am I right in thinking that if you spoil the ballot paper they have to count that?

Yup, they count spoiled papers. I have on occasions written nice little messages on my ballot paper, like

'they all suck monkeys nuts'

or

'please have a none of the above box'

I still go through the motions, but its rare i actually vote for a party as they are all crap.

Gentreau spouted:
Then I trust you won't complain about the government for the next 5 years.

Then I trust you think it's better to go along with something you don't agree with than stand out by saying you don't go along with any of them... and thus just because you don't agree with any of them you no longer have a right to complain ?!

Get real.

I am being real. If you dont vote for anyone to represent you at parliament, then you have no voice. The system may not be perfect, but it is what it is and we all have the right to elect our representatives. If we choose to exclude ourselves from that process, we give up the right to complain about the results.

If you dont like any of the candidates standing for election, why not do something about it? Get involved and change things from the inside, it's a lot easier than trying to change them from the outside.

And by the way, your MP is elected to represent everybody in his/her constituency, not just the card carrying members of a certain party. Vote for the person who will represent you best, not a party.

hugo-a-gogo mused:

who would you like as your baby sitter: gary glitter, ian huntley or ian brady?

If there were no abstention option it would have to be Garry logically, on the basis that he hasn't killed any children yet.

Extrapolating my flimsy and morally repugnant argument I would say therefore that the nearest we have in politics to Garry Glitter are the Liberals.

Obviously after voting and following the ensuing and predictable child murdering, I will not be available for comment.

Gentreau spouted:
If you dont like any of the candidates standing for election, why not do something about it? Get involved and change things from the inside, it's a lot easier than trying to change them from the outside.
...
Vote for the person who will represent you best, not a party.

Sorry, but I'm far more likely to be paid as an IT/Computer Consultant than I am as a politician, and though I could probably lie as easily to get the job it's not my field of work.

As for voting who represents me best, none of them do. So, if none of them do, that's who I actually vote for. None of them.

Gentreau spouted:
I am being real. If you dont vote for anyone to represent you at parliament, then you have no voice. The system may not be perfect, but it is what it is and we all have the right to elect our representatives

Gentreau, if the only two parties running were the BNP and the national Front, who would you vote for?

We all have the right not to vote. If we didn't, what kind of a democracy would it be?

Dazzla, you're hypothesising an extreme situation which in reality would not occur as someone less extreme would stand to oppose those parties. I would therefore vote for whoever came closest to representing me.

Of course I have the right not to vote, but doing so simply abdicates the decision to others, and I know how much faith I have in them. I would then have no right to complain about who was elected as I had willingly handed that choice to others. I may indeed have the right to complain about what that person or party did, but not that fact that they were in power in the first place. In the same way that I have no right to complain about who the Italians elect as their government.

Of course, all complaints should be directd at actions/policies/decisions made by the government rather than the government itself (as long as it was democratically elected).

My greatest regrat about leaving Scotland is that I won't be able to vote for the SSP and help their inexorable rise from laughing stock to mainstream troublemakers.

Long live Orange Tommy (orange due to his love for sunbeds rather than his religious persuasion)

I just wish he'd set up a party in Wales so I could vote for him

i'm a member of the socialist party.

Get involved and change things from the inside, it's a lot easier than trying to change them from the outside.

No Gentreau, it isn't. It takes a lot of work to even force minor change, whereas major change can occur with only passive endorsement (low-level grumbling about Iraq has a catalytic effect on the government, much more effective than any demo or letter-writing campaign), or by having the glory sluts stand back and letting the professionals do their thang (how good would the health system be if nurses, doctors and therapists had direct contact with patients rather than the thick cheesy crust of bureaucracy blocking interactions that might have positive health outcomes).

I have no right to complain about who the Italians elect as their government.
You do, if the actions of that government affect you. Look at all the shite written about George W Bush, and take out all the stuff not written by citizens of the United States. I think Bill Gates makes decisions that affect my life, so I assess those decisions and criticise the ones I don't like, though I'm not a shareholder nor even a customer, and he's not an elected official.

i'm a member of the socialist party.
(laughs) Oh yeah, which one? The People's Socialist Front? The Socialist Workers Party? The Party of Democratic Socialism? Socialists invented boutique niche marketing long before capitalists ever twigged to it, the funny splitting cunts.

Gentreau spouted:
Of course I have the right not to vote, but doing so simply abdicates the decision to others... I may indeed have the right to complain about what that person or party did, but not that fact that they were in power in the first place. In the same way that I have no right to complain about who the Italians elect as their government.

Actually, you do still have a right to complain. It's a basic human right. Just because you don't vote for something doesn't mean you have to keep your mouth shut.

I didn't vote for the footballers who play for Preston North End, but I will still complain if I feel they are not performing.

The Tories have fucked it all up and so have the (New Tories)Labour party so why not give the Lib Dems a go?
Maybe not :)

Anyone ever watch Pms questions? Its hilarious. All these grown men jeering and taking the piss out of each other and the PM never ever answering any questions put to him, then a lib dem stands up and everyone breaks down in hysterics. Anyone see it yesterday before that purple shit was thrown? This Lib Dem bloke stands up and starts talking about this great thing they do in the US, Japan, Sweden and Switzerland, only he fucks up and says swindleland and everyone takes off for about 5 mins. The wee bloke complains to the speaker and he just laughs at him. Eventually he storms out like a cock. Comic Genius. Channel 4 should do a sitcom on it. Who should star? Peter Kay for John Presscot gets my vote. Who for the other roles?

I would like to have a box on the voting form which says "NONE of the above" just so that when who ever wins I can say that probly most of us Voted so and that if we formed a Party you would not be in power and I would :P

Lets a new party called "NONE of the ABOVE" it would get all the people who dont want to vote for the run of the mill mps.
Hell It gets my vote ;)

Hugh Jorgan spouted:


Well that's a very tempting offer Manta (note also: Tories are also more grateful). I was appealing to other dogbombers to talk me out of it, not asking you to talk me into it though :)

There are some interesting campaigns on your website. 'Save our supplements' and abolishing tuition fees are very commendable. Also I was surprised the North East has a tory MEP. But I am a fan of the EU which might damage my tory credentials.

What we need are 'New conservatives' - I quite like the idea of sticking it to Tony as a progressive tory.

I'm not even taking the piss. That scares me in itself. Remember Mauda? Well he puts it far better than I ever could, for example on the Boris Johnson thread...

http://www.dogbomb.co.uk/board/showthread.php?s=&postid=176134#post176134

Every post he makes on that page is cracking stuff. It's no coincidence that my IQ effectively halved when Mauda left. I bloody loved that guy!

I'm not a fan of the EU and there are lots of people - whether they vote Labour or Lib Dem - who feel exactly the same way. There are lots of pro-Europeans within the Tory party, but doesn't mean they'll jump ship because the Party's stance is different. The Tories are not anti-EU, just more cautious, ensuring we retain the right to govern ourselves then head blindly into a European Superstate. You'll find where you disagree on one or two issues, you agree on hundreds of others. That's politics.

Mauda was the first friend (and only friend) I made when I first registered here. He never resorted to abusive, was always friendly, courteous, witty and clever. And the MH board is worse off without him. It was good to read some of his posts again. By the way, you'll being seeing a lot less of Boris now he's a Shadow Minsiter.

skins spouted:
I would like to have a box on the voting form which says "NONE of the above" just so that when who ever wins I can say that probly most of us Voted so and that if we formed a Party you would not be in power and I would :P

Lets a new party called "NONE of the ABOVE" it would get all the people who dont want to vote for the run of the mill mps.
Hell It gets my vote ;)

Brewster's Millions

Steveyrc spouted:
Comic Genius. Channel 4 should do a sitcom on it. Who should star? Peter Kay for John Presscot gets my vote. Who for the other roles?

If I remember rightly there already was a sitcom based about parliment. Certaiinly Rory Bremnar has been doing skits on the question time style of questions a Politician.

cor_innit spouted:




(laughs) Oh yeah, which one? The People's Socialist Front? The Socialist Workers Party? The Party of Democratic Socialism? Socialists invented boutique niche marketing long before capitalists ever twigged to it, the funny splitting cunts.

well the post before it speaks of the scottish socialist party so there may be a clue here somewhere ;)

When it comes to the right to vote, I agree with Gentreau I'm afraid. To not vote is to not have an opinion, to not care who ends up running the country.

As for thwe Scottish Socialist Party, They are the most credible because they managed to win a few seats come election time. It would also be interesting to see how many other Socialist parties there are in Scotland apart from the SSP as opposed to the large number of Socialist Parties here, who all like to stand against each other in elections (who should you vote for? - Socialist Labour or Socialist Alliance?)

The Respect Unity Coailition have been leafleting up here (well, sticking up posters all over Newcastle City Centre - makes a nice change from BNP posters I think)

http://www.respectcoalition.org/index.php

So hopefully this means that I won't have to choose from the 3 main parites (who I probably won't vote for) two parties with the same name and the BNP as it was the last time I was called upon to vote (local elections - where every party except the Tories resorted to slating the opposition Labour and Lib Dems are such handbag swinging numpties on the local council)

a quick check shows that there used to be a scottish socialist alliance. a few parties who unlike in england actually worked together. they apparently got fed up with that and just all joined together into the one party. apart from socialist labour that is. who were resoundly trounced by the SSP in the last election. been in existence since 1998 and got 6 seats in the last scottish election and predictions show they are just gonna keep getting bigger.

Jedi - maybe that's what this Respect coalition's all about - they've learnt from Scotland - a Google for Socialist Alliance shows the English SA giving them their full support (one of MEP candidates represents my branch of UNISON on the NEC IIRC) and George Galloway is their leader!

Howay Jorgan! That's got to make shift you away from Manta-like tendencies (or am I getting you confused with the late, great Brausen?)

Geoneil spouted:
When it comes to the right to vote, I agree with Gentreau I'm afraid. To not vote is to not have an opinion, to not care who ends up running the country.

Obviously you need to re-read what I wrote. I do care, I care that none of them are worth my vote. I think my vote counts for something as it isn't going to any of them.

We all deal with politics everyday, and we all express our opinions everyday. To say not to vote is not to have an opinion is like saying that because you don't have want sauce, you can't have fish!

so what is it then? you dont have sauce or dont want sauce?

netniV spouted:


Obviously you need to re-read what I wrote. I do care, I care that none of them are worth my vote. I think my vote counts for something as it isn't going to any of them.

We all deal with politics everyday, and we all express our opinions everyday. To say not to vote is not to have an opinion is like saying that because you don't have want sauce, you can't have fish!

ok we'll put this another way. if a vote was held as to what to have for dinnder and you didnt vote, would you have any right to cpmplain when you got a plate of sprouts?

and yes, i do see the irony of mocking your mistake them making a load of my own :/

Actually, I do complain if I'm handed a plate of sprouts when I haven't made up my mind about what I'm having for dinner, unless I'm the one who made up.

Geoneil spouted:
Howay Jorgan! That's got to make shift you away from Manta-like tendencies (or am I getting you confused with the late, great Brausen?)

Hmm... I'd have to go to one of their meetings and see how many hard core pseudo-commies there are. Extreme lefties tend to be motivated by frustration and anger, often extremely intelligent people who haven't done anything near as well in life as they expected to. As a result, when they DO get a little power, it goes to their heads. Just look at Patrick after he became a mod :P

That's why it's either lab or con to me, because they have experience and a degree of... safety. I'm always suspicious of new parties - National Socialists, anyone?

I hope the Respect coalition does well if it sticks to its principles, but I'm I bit suspcious of Gorgeous George after all the shitstorms he's been involved in.