As far as I can gather, the statistics concerning fan violence up to now are:

Fans charged/sent Home:
England: 44
Russia : 1
Holland : 1

Why is England on pole position?
What can be done to prevent this in future?

Serious discussion please.

say we are top,
we are top of the league.........

what really pisses me off about all this is no one has proved that the idiots who have been causing trouble are even " fans " since most of them have been arrested 200 miles away from where england have been playing.

oo they may sing and shout england england but have they been to one game ?

even fifa have said england are not in any danger of being thrown out of euro 2004 because these incidents have not happened at the games, or even in the towns where the games have been played...

and also from what i have seen the police have been hitting out at anyone who happened to be in the area of where the trouble is...which does seem to happen all the time in europe..i do think the police forces abroad are
thuggish at times towards football fans..

im not being funny but i am also wondering why the fan related posts keep getting shut down because they are to do with euro 2004 ..

mod edit: posts about english league games are off topic, posts that descend into abuse and telling each other to fuck off, get closed

what really pisses me off about all this is no one has proved that the idiots who have been causing trouble are even " fans " since most of them have been arrested 200 miles away from where england have been playing.

oo they may sing and shout england england but have they been to one game ?

[/size][/i]

i never went to a single game last year to see rangers. am i not a fan? if scotland went to, oh lets say spain for talking sake for a tourney. now i dont have tickets so i go to a holiday resort, say benidorm. that way i can watch the footie and have a good time. if i go out drinking and to watch the games with a load of other scots with the same idea, does that mean we aint fans??

poor arguement.

Jedi: yes it does mean you aren't a true supporter, just an armchair one ;)

(supposedly Scotland are going to Spain in the beginning of Sept. for a friendly)

i never went to a single game last year to see rangers. am i not a fan?

No, you're not.

I've though long about this. For 15 minutes. Here's my not very practical solution. Feel free to critisice.

All those who buy tickets from accreddited suppliers to be put into a database.
Names to be printed on tickets, along with an ID number of sorts.
When fans enter ground, tickets checked. If name or ID number do not match, do not let them in, hold them in a secure area.
If someone causes trouble, name to be given to authoroties, blacklist on database, and give name etc to all grounds in Europe. If they try to gain entry into a ground, imediate deportation. Also take away passport so they cannot leave England, even to go on holiday, and jail time too.

This is where I hit a mental wall. Not practical, i know, but still.

good idea.

shame most of the trouble makers don't even attempt to go to the match. They tend to gather in bars/pubs in the town centre

If anyone is found guilty of casuing trouble, they should never be allowed to leaev England, or, like someone has already said, stop them from buying alcohol from anywhere. No pubs, clubs or supermarkets.

what, ever?

what about when they're old and grey?

Was there much of this shite in Euro '96 or WC '66?

That's a genuine question, I know supporters have ripped apart Croydon this year, but is a part of it that they don't really give a shit about respecting foriegn countires, don't piss on your own doorstep type scenario.

My solution is to hold all the tournaments in England.
If that doesn't work, hold them in Scotland, there's guaranteed to be no violent clashes that way. cough.

Ok, what about a country where capital punishment flourishes? 2 years prison is a class act to follow, but giant super-soakers just don't have the same impact that they used to.

*edit - I just read that part about serious discussion only, forgive me. I did have a serious question though.

All those who buy tickets from accreddited suppliers to be put into a database.
Names to be printed on tickets, along with an ID number of sorts.
When fans enter ground, tickets checked. If name or ID number do not match, do not let them in, hold them in a secure area.

Surely the FA do something like this already? isn't it called englandfans or summat?

anyway the SFA have a 'travel club'
You can only get tickets for away games through this organisation, and for big games the tickets are collected in the city where the game is, with the club membership card, to avoid people selling them on. Anyone who gets a football-related conviction is kicked out and can't get tickets any more. Anyone found selling on their ticket is kicked out too

Take this as you wish and make your own judgement but I have been to several England away games and have first hand experiance of the so-called 'English Disease' it isn't all one way traffic. In Albania I was whacked with a Baton from a very edgy police officer after it kicked off in the main square and I was just exiting the toilet of a bar. I was pissed, granted but had not raised so much as a smile in anger all day, I was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I made post haste to a hotel reception area and was greeted by several other innocents who had the same idea as me. We laughed it off, fucked off to the bar and forgot all about it. Albania's finest had other ideas.

On mass, England fans were herded towards the pile of rubble that passed for a football stadium. I kid you not, I was singled out by one fuck-wit who kept jabbing me in the back with his baton. Im no hardcase and im not stupid (who fancies a two stretch in a Albanian jail? Fuck that!! But we all have our limits. I swung around and screamed at this tosser that if he jabbed me again then I was going to smack him in the mouth ( his english was crap, what did he understand of that outburst? Fuck me but the prick gave me another dig!! Now at the time I was fit as fuck and at 6ft 2in and 16 stone looked the part as well, I rared up like a cat and grabbed the bastards baton and guess what? The silly man only let go. Im like a dog with a squirrel, what do I do now? Im standing there feeling rather stupid with a police baton in my hand and this equally stupid Albanian policeman is standing there without one. Lucky for both of us common sense prefailed when one of his colleauges cracked me on the arm which made me drop it like hot shit and some bloke from Preston grabbed hold of me and slung me into the crowd to hide me. That was the end of it and neither of us lost too much face but it was a fucking close call.

I went to the famous 5-1 drubbing of Germany in Munich and witnessed Englands finest hour. Remember the programme made by a coupe of undercover reporters about hooligans in Munich? They struck very luckey to get all that footage of fighting and rampage cause I was there for three days and saw a very different story of events. Was there a mention of German Nazi skinheads attending a meeting at the Hoffbrau House on the same day as the match? Was there a mention of groups of youths standing on street corners chucking bricks, bottles and whatever else they coud get their hands on then being chased off only when the police moved in when England fans retaliated? (By the way Marley B, the Hull lads were well fucking game and a great laugh to be with) No thought not. Selective reporting I think it's called.

I had a fight over there. Was it a mass brawl in a beer house? Was it English thugs rampaging through the streets and some German citizen decided to stand his ground? Or perhaps I singled out some innocent young lad because im a phycotic thug from Essex. Actually it was because I was pushed arse over tit on a escalator by a stroppy local trying to show off to his girlfriend. I told him his fortune, he hid behind his girlfriend, then gave me a sneaky kick in the shin. I went for him, he backed off and his girlfriend got stuck in like a pro. Gutless tosser!

The point to all this waffle is that half the trouble is caused by bullshit media build-up, and cheap boozed up arseholes who never even consider travelling unless it's the main event, not the build-up. Also, because our wonderful newspapers pump up a false reputation and surmise about what might happen then european police forces prepare for the worse and overeact at the slightest provication. You only see half the picture on the tv and because all supporters are tarred with the same brush, whatever is said in their defence is discounted immediatley. You had to try fucking hard to find a row kicking off in Munich, if you were there but when I got home I saw loads on the telly. On the friday before the match we were accosted by some tosser with a camera trying to get us to look mean for a photo. A pal of mine asked him what he wanted us to do and he said 'What about burning a German flag? This comment was made to a table of 'yobs' drinking coffee and hot chocolate at 10 o'clock in the morning. One lad was approached and asked for a photo which he agreed to if he was brought a breakfast. Frankfurters and bread rolls arrived and the cameras were stand by for the 'shock photo' of a English thug abusing a German waiter. He sat there quietly, ate with his mouth closed, asked for the bill and left a 10 frank tip. Then he got up and told the freelance prick of a reporter that if he really wanted a front page photo then follow him up a alleyway where he could take photo's of himself having the shit kicked out of him.

Don't get me wrong, Portugal has a large quoter of arseholes present who want to cause trouble but it isn't on the scale that the papers and tv would have you believe.

I can well imagine Albania as being a rough spot, even in relatively friendly Lithuania, the riot squad at the game were itching for action, forcing us over an big pile of rubble and old collapsed fence to get in the ground, while standing round tapping their batons.
yes, there is already the big expectation for violence from England fans (and those 'holidaymakers' in portugal who don't seem to be going to games) which is the point I have been making that they have to be perfect and do nothing wrong for a long time before that goes away. so what else can they do?

AH HA!! Read one of your other posts. Like the SFA you can only get tickets through the England Away Club but theres always touts about when you get there. I personally dont want the FA to have my details so I prefered to get tickets the old fashioned way.

If anyone is found guilty of casuing trouble, they should never be allowed to leaev England, or, like someone has already said, stop them from buying alcohol from anywhere. No pubs, clubs or supermarkets.Hmm.I agree with rainbo that there are many people who should be banned from coming into contact with alcohol.Problem is you would need a 24 hour booze police.Actually rainbo might have hit on a way to trim the unemployment figures still further.

Guardian Wednesday Supplement

Wanted : 25,000 Alcohol Ingestion Prevention Officers

Reporting to the head of the regional AIP department,the successful candidates will work under cover to gather evidence against members of the community in breach of their alcohol ingestion banning orders.Successful candidates will be required to give evidence in court to obtain convictions on those in breach.
Salary 30k + car + 2k a month licensed premesis allowance.
Apply in writing to Our Dear Leader,10 Downing Street,London.


Good luck

jedi , you support rangers yet you never went to see them one time last season ?

then your not a true fan..

O God, that men should put an enemy in their mouths to steal away their brains! that we should, with joy, pleasance, revel, and applause, transform ourselves into beasts! ~William Shakespeare, Othello